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Dreadnoughts Aren't Dreadnaughts - they are Trebuchets
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Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-10-14 21:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Heribeck Weathers
Esiel wrote:
I think you actually don't realize but the Trebuchet survied even to today. It is called heavy artillary. You ever see HA set up, it is large cumbersome and its defense is crap. It has become less and less used because of that but it still exsists and has a place in 2011 armies.



While the concept is the same its uses are diferant. heavy artilary due to our advanced intel and percision targeting has a fair amount of acuaracy and can hit many diferant targets from infantry squads to structures, unlike the trebuchets and dreads.

making a dread like heavy artilary would be like makign its guns hit out to 100k with acuracy, but it can't hit anything within 30k what so ever. which wouldnt be a terible idea, it would mean that you would need a suport fleet to hold down the enemy BSs while the dreads cyno in at say 75 kms and seige, so that they didnt get within the no fire zone.
Tania Russ
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2011-10-14 21:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tania Russ
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
Esiel wrote:
I think you actually don't realize but the Trebuchet survied even to today. It is called heavy artillary. You ever see HA set up, it is large cumbersome and its defense is crap. It has become less and less used because of that but it still exsists and has a place in 2011 armies.



While the concept is the same its uses are diferant. heavy artilary due to our advanced intel and percision targeting has a fair amount of acuaracy and can hit many diferant targets from infantry squads to structures, unlike the trebuchets and dreads.

making a dread like heavy artilary would be like makign its guns hit out to 100k with acuracy, but it can't hit anything within 30k what so ever. which wouldnt be a terible idea, it would mean that you would need a suport fleet to hold down the enemy BSs while the dreads cyno in at say 75 kms and seige, so that they didnt get within the no fire zone.


Maybe increased range is a good idea. The problem is that with siege mode it wouldn't matter if you could hit from 250 km, by the time you came out of siege they would be on top of you and you would die.

Dreads as a battlefield weapon have to be like a super-battleship, that is, tanky enough to fight toe to toe with supercaps, no siege mode so they can have mobility while firing, and ability to hit both BSes and supers hard. Otherwise we are stuck with the status quo, and if this keeps up, EVE is going to bleed subscribers. Hell I have been mostly on "vacation" from EVE all summer. I have no motivation, no impetus to play. Nothing draws me in. 5 years for no end game. Thanks CCP.
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2011-10-17 18:13:37 UTC
I'm confused. People are talking about dreads like they can't kill a carrier or a few battleships. They most definitely can. The problem is that they have to enter siege to kill the carrier and that usually ends up with the carrier lighting a cyno and more ships showing up to kill the dread. XL guns and missiles can still rip up a battleship as long as you don't siege. At that point, you are doing BS damage back at the battleships but have a lot more tank than they do.

The main problem with dreads is their inability to field in reasonable numbers to kill supers (in the same fashion as all other smaller ships can group up to kill something bigger than themselves). You want dread? Give them XL neuts that can only be fit on a dread and used in siege. THAT would cause dread.
Tania Russ
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-11-08 15:08:32 UTC
I like the capital neutralizer idea. That could work.

I still would want dreads to have no siege mode. No siege means they are again an effective weapon. They should have more gns as well and they should retain their drone bays.
Tania Russ
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2011-11-08 15:13:54 UTC
Here is an idea:

CHange siege mode. Instead of being totally immobile for siege mode, just make the siege timer prevent the dread from jumping out during the timer. So it can still warp, can still move, can still get remote reps, just simply cannot use a cyno jump for the timer period. Problem solved!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#66 - 2011-11-08 15:46:07 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
I'm confused. People are talking about dreads like they can't kill a carrier or a few battleships. They most definitely can. The problem is that they have to enter siege to kill the carrier and that usually ends up with the carrier lighting a cyno and more ships showing up to kill the dread. XL guns and missiles can still rip up a battleship as long as you don't siege. At that point, you are doing BS damage back at the battleships but have a lot more tank than they do.

The main problem with dreads is their inability to field in reasonable numbers to kill supers (in the same fashion as all other smaller ships can group up to kill something bigger than themselves). You want dread? Give them XL neuts that can only be fit on a dread and used in siege. THAT would cause dread.


Dreads should be able to kill carriers without siege.

They should be SC + Titan killers in siege.

Give them anti sub cap weapons and presto, you got ample dread.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Roger Soros
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2011-11-08 23:52:13 UTC
I don't think that ccp change their mind and make the dreads able to confortably hit a bs, into ccp mind caps and supers aren't the natural evolution of subs they are a completely different set of ships; after the winter nerfs the only caps that going to be able to engage a subs are carriers with normal drones and in the future i predict that they gonna nerf even this.
Basically you as a pilot have a choice remain into the subs realm and specialize/cross train or enter caps realm and bury your toon inside a mom or a titan.
Tania Russ
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2011-11-09 15:11:54 UTC
Roger Soros wrote:
I don't think that ccp change their mind and make the dreads able to confortably hit a bs, into ccp mind caps and supers aren't the natural evolution of subs they are a completely different set of ships; after the winter nerfs the only caps that going to be able to engage a subs are carriers with normal drones and in the future i predict that they gonna nerf even this.
Basically you as a pilot have a choice remain into the subs realm and specialize/cross train or enter caps realm and bury your toon inside a mom or a titan.


I don't disagree with you that this seems to be the way it is going. Unfortunately, this makes dreads a waste of time. And if carriers aren't able to engage subcaps, that makes them a waste of time as well. At least carriers can transrt ships I suppose.

Imagine how things could be shaken up in the 0.0 politics world, however, if every EVE pilot had relatively easy access to a weapon that could be used in nullsec and lowsec to absolutely shoot the crap out of anything it encountered. Titans and moms would still be more powerful but they would now be threatened by a determined group of dread pilots. Currently nothing threatens them except a larger group of moms or titans.

I want that weapon. I want everyone to have it. I want te current nullsec powers that be to have their butts handed to them by a nice dread toting gang of average EVE players. Make it so CCP. Either that or stop talking out of your butts saying you want "more nullsec combat". Pfff.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#69 - 2011-11-09 16:17:51 UTC
The problem I see with dreadnoughts is this: They are not under-powered, its that the trade off for the power is too much.

You have to sit there, you can't be healed remotely (local wont cut it in half-decent engagements), you cant track **** (which is understandable considering the name "Siege"), and worst of all it is almost useless to be out of siege.

Rather then the 7x bonus they will get from siege, I recommend they drop it down and increase the base damage dreads/Capital weapons do. This way they are still doing the same or similar siege damage as before but, like carriers, are not dependent on their special module unless repping or killing a structure.

(titans would reduce the 125% damage/level equally to maintain balance)
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-11-09 16:35:12 UTC
Dreads should be effective out of siege against caps and supers, in siege against structures. Pulling sentries is just idiotic, if this is the case give us more utility highs, maybe 2 or 3.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-09 19:08:10 UTC
Quote:


it is the worst useless pile of crap CCP has yet devised.



i beg to differ... the procurer has that honor Blink

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Roger Soros
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-11-09 19:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Roger Soros
Tania Russ wrote:

I don't disagree with you that this seems to be the way it is going. Unfortunately, this makes dreads a waste of time. And if carriers aren't able to engage subcaps, that makes them a waste of time as well. At least carriers can transrt ships I suppose.

Imagine how things could be shaken up in the 0.0 politics world, however, if every EVE pilot had relatively easy access to a weapon that could be used in nullsec and lowsec to absolutely shoot the crap out of anything it encountered. Titans and moms would still be more powerful but they would now be threatened by a determined group of dread pilots. Currently nothing threatens them except a larger group of moms or titans.

I want that weapon. I want everyone to have it. I want te current nullsec powers that be to have their butts handed to them by a nice dread toting gang of average EVE players. Make it so CCP. Either that or stop talking out of your butts saying you want "more nullsec combat". Pfff.


that problem can't be fixed by a dreads change, because big alliance can simply counter your 100 dreads with 200 dreads + supers, the real problem lien in the fact that big alliances should never be allowed to live peacefully in a zone for years farming unlimited resources and build over 40 titan and who know how many moms.
Titan and mom where originally designed to be the rarest ship in game but today thanks to bots, moons etc they where mass produced to a point that even lone player can dream to own one of them; due to the current situation the only way to put a limit to them is the CCP that step in and directly control their price/manufacturing time to a point that they can't be build anymore and when a loss happen they can't be replaced, this until their number return to an acceptable level.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-11-09 20:44:15 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
Russell Casey wrote:
The Reaper, a name that conjures up death and the harvesting of souls------- it's a rookie ship.

The Fenrir----that big Viking wolf that devours the suns and gods at the end of the world-----it's a freighter.

Merlin----the original badass wizard---it's a frig piloted by guys with anger-management issues in the Causality trailer.

Hulk----do I even have to say it?!?!?!?



I think the OP was talking about Class name not individual names. I dont expect a phoenix class dread to grow firey wings and fly away.

In popular sci-fi the dreadnought is a ship class above a battle ship with better offencive and defencive fire power able to demolish smaller battleships.


In Syfy bigger ships have better sensors and electronics than smaller ships