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Asking for feedback on Certificate visibility

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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#201 - 2013-06-29 23:50:26 UTC
Personally I think the current certificate function is a bit boring, and basically is made obsolete by players sharing information on skills via 3rd party service api when needed.

However.. There is a potential to use certificates in a more engaging and meaningful way.

Make all npc corps open to join, but limited based on skills, certificates, and standings.

Exchange the current certificate system with an improved version of corp membership history.
This is basically the pilots CV and they should be allowed to make them visible or not as they see fit.

Also consider making our kill list kills / losses public from inside the client instead.

Thus the public shown kills and losses would be visible on player info based on inside client and thus 100% ccp confirmed information. The information would be updated at Down-Time.

Also a flag feature / notification from corps positive and negative should be considered added to the game. The equivalent to real life phoning the company for a statement, or the police to check criminal records.

A simplified version of the above would be really useful and give a lot more depth to the game.

Also it would get rid of those stupid long employment history lists that is only making it to easy to avoid spys and awoxers. Something a bit more demanding regarding background checking would be preferred..
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#202 - 2013-06-30 15:53:38 UTC
Allow us to make our own certificates? Sandbox it, players will figure out how to use them.

Run level 4 missions?  Increase your income and help new players earn ISK.  Join channel: [b]Pro Synergy Pro Synergy[/b] is looking for dedicated Salvagers.  Want to learn more?  Join channel: Pro Synergy
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#203 - 2013-07-01 07:29:22 UTC
I find certificates to be utterly useless, especially for their intended use of replacement of the need for API keys and access to a character's skill sheet(as said by a CCP during a fanfest years ago).

Remove certificates. nobody cares.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#204 - 2013-07-01 18:38:31 UTC
I think Certificates, Employment History and Decorations all need a big remake. Preferably one that integrates all the aspects, and gives them some new and proper used features.

Certificates:

Used for granting access to membership in npc corps, and thus granting a benefit to standing gains when doing PVE, while sacrificing isk via taxation. Tax in npc corps should be fixed to work on taxing all types of transactions in a well balanced way, and thus making it worth it to move into player corps.

Employment History.

This should be changed to a CV based function, where players can set visual parts. Also corps should be able to have an employment history log, that can be exported. The important missing part of this feature is showing length of time as a member better, and maybe granted roles and decorations. (see next)

Decoration

These are currently only vanity oriented this is making them less interesting to most players. A nice way to change this would be to integrate it into the implants system. Thus making it a sort of guild-booster. The corp issuing a decoration can install an implant that then grants a bonus to all members with the decoration. The price to grant the decoration would be base price + price of the installed implant. (the implant would be consumed when granting the decoration)

This would be 1 or 2 slots dedicated to this feature and maybe a specific type would be needed, or any existing implant could be used but at 50% efficiency, to add stacking penalty.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#205 - 2013-07-03 14:49:05 UTC

The only certificates I direct new players to is the Core skills, because they never seem to understand how valuable these things are.

I don't know what your plans to improve them are, but I think that few people use the certificates as is, and are misleading in other ways.

I don't think you should have any info displayed that we don't want displayed, either way.

I don't want people to know how many elite certs I have. I don't have an ego-narcissism issue. Deception is my tool of warfare. In fact, I would like to only show my novice certs so everyone thinks I'm a noob. Pirate

More importantly, I think this feature needs to be streamlined into the corp management a bit more, I would say.

Where I am.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#206 - 2013-07-03 14:50:30 UTC

Shocked Get out of EVE. The door is that way Arrow

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
I think Certificates, Employment History and Decorations all need a big remake. Preferably one that integrates all the aspects, and gives them some new and proper used features.

Certificates:

Used for granting access to membership in npc corps, and thus granting a benefit to standing gains when doing PVE, while sacrificing isk via taxation. Tax in npc corps should be fixed to work on taxing all types of transactions in a well balanced way, and thus making it worth it to move into player corps.

Employment History.

This should be changed to a CV based function, where players can set visual parts. Also corps should be able to have an employment history log, that can be exported. The important missing part of this feature is showing length of time as a member better, and maybe granted roles and decorations. (see next)

Decoration

These are currently only vanity oriented this is making them less interesting to most players. A nice way to change this would be to integrate it into the implants system. Thus making it a sort of guild-booster. The corp issuing a decoration can install an implant that then grants a bonus to all members with the decoration. The price to grant the decoration would be base price + price of the installed implant. (the implant would be consumed when granting the decoration)

This would be 1 or 2 slots dedicated to this feature and maybe a specific type would be needed, or any existing implant could be used but at 50% efficiency, to add stacking penalty.


Where I am.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#207 - 2013-07-03 16:19:25 UTC
Quote:
Remove the ability to set Certificates as public

Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance – this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)

Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own

For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but don’t mention to which fields they apply – for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.



-I think the ability to set certs as public should stay unless having the option there causes problems elsewhere

-Being able to show specific certs and profiles would be a very strong improvement - my corp recruits a fair number of newbies and being able to see what they're skilling for would put me in a better position to know what they can do and where I can make suggestions.

-I'm not convinced a comparison feature would be exceptionally useful. If you really need to know who has better skills in an area, it's either completely obvious (one player is vastly more skilled in the area than the other), or so small that the differences probably wouldn't show up on the certificate level.

-No one would give half a **** about certificate statistics for "bragging rights". They don't mean anything, people don't think they mean anything. Certificates are only useful in that they are a skill training guideline for people who don't otherwise know what they should train. If I want to brag about how many skills I have trained I'll talk about my SP total or my SP total in particular skill groups.


Also, make sure when you're doing this revamp you actually sort which skills go in which certificates to include the newer skills

...And some of the certs need a revamp. Seriously, having targeting to V and Multitasking trained at all is completely useless unless you're flying Logi. There's no reason that low-level core competency certs should require them. Having low-priority skills to high levels in the certificates undermines the certs' purpose as a guideline to newbies. It's because of stuff like this that people point newbies to online skill guides rather than just telling them to look at the relevant certs.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#208 - 2013-07-06 21:10:01 UTC
I think the focus needs to shift from things that arent game breaking to something that needs addressing. For instance just off the top of my head. I would rather see more attention give to eve voice rather then something that really doesnt make a difference like certs.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#209 - 2013-07-07 01:00:54 UTC
I like the current certificate setup as it is now. Please don't change it.

thx.

yk
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#210 - 2013-07-09 03:00:54 UTC
Keep the core sets but concentrate on professions for the rest. "Lowsec PvP, missiles" or "Explorer, highsec" etc.

Completely useless once you are more familiar with the skill tree (i.e. you just talk about specific skills) so narrow usage down to new players.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#211 - 2013-07-09 13:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
1) I don't care. EVE made my toon complete introvert, I don't use present system, I won't use future system, I won't join corp, won't invite people to mine (because I cannot recommend EVE to any of my real life friends);

2) if you want to do something actually useful - re-make fleet broadcast window, please: bigger buttons and highlights of broadcasts by type. Broadcast window is are unusable during bigger encounters because there is no time to read every string out of 3-5 coming out each second. Also there should be limit how many times a person may broadcast per 10 seconds or minute.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#212 - 2013-07-10 12:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Octoven wrote:
I think the focus needs to shift from things that arent game breaking to something that needs addressing. For instance just off the top of my head. I would rather see more attention give to eve voice rather then something that really doesnt make a difference like certs.


This. The certificates are fairly intuitive already. No one was unhappy with them. They are a nice bit of decoration for those that wish to pursue them and don't require any adjustments.

yk
Charles RunningHawk
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#213 - 2013-07-10 20:03:32 UTC
Keep some of the core skill sets, and revamp the starter professions to professions so instead of Caldari special forces you have Caldari Electronic Warfare Specialist Basic - Caldari Frigate II, ECM operator basic, Frigate missiles basic certificates and a few others, Caldari Electronic Warfare Specialist Elite would take you up though Caldari Battleship, ECM Elite, and Battleship Missiles Elite/Basic??? Have the profession certificates relate to a role either PvP or PvE, and wrap core certificates into them.

Make the certificates Private, Viewable by Corp / Alliance or Public - That way an FC can tell if you can fly a particular role, such as Armor Logistics.
John DaiSho
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#214 - 2013-07-10 23:18:59 UTC
Just...please dont take away my "Elite hull tanking certificate"
CtrlAltDelete Dethahal
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2013-07-16 18:27:20 UTC
Doesn't matter if they're visible or not, people still won't use them in their current incarnation.

An idea to make them useful would be to let corporations set their own certificates. Lets face it, they only people who care what you can fly are your corp/alliance pilots and that is strictly so they can figure out if you can fly the ships they use, identify who can refine perfectly, identify who can manufacture without loss, etc.

I know it would make my life easier not going through 10 spreadsheets and wiki pages to figure out what doctrine ships I can fly. If I could just look at my "Custom Certs" and figure out what's correct it would save me and whoever makes these TL:DR spreadsheets happy and point out what I need to do to get "qualified".

A corp role for setting certifications and forced visibility to corp/alliance (or maybe another viewing certs role?) would be all that's required.

Industry corps could use the same thing, but instead of PVP fleet doctrines they could use things like "Ice Miner Basic", "Ice Miner Intermediate", "Orca Booster", or whatever in the world industry corps do/care about.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#216 - 2013-07-17 02:15:39 UTC
The certificates could use some updating, but the biggest issue with them is the "everyone or noone" sharing model.

Corp leaders could definitely use certificates as a quick way to see when their players have the skills prepped for various roles, without needing to use API keys and out-of-game tools to do so. *Especially* if the permissions were settable to Private-Blue-Public, or Private-Corp-Public.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Ditrius Bedala
BecauseICaNDoIt
#217 - 2013-07-17 11:48:44 UTC
The certificates alone are not that bad. This serve as indication, that capsuler posses a certain number of skills.

The problem is now noone in right mind will make it's certificate public, cause this will give strategic advantage to enemy in PvP and will disclose that player do not meet required skills in PvE.

I suggest the following:
1) Make certificates "autoclaimable". Right now to get certificate to need to claim it, which seems to be unnecessary action.
2) Set visibility certificates to public for people, who are in the same fleet. This will help both FC of PvP and PvE fleets.
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#218 - 2013-07-19 13:29:10 UTC
Remove them. Your databases will be thankful. Your code will be lighter. Focus on Drone management.

Thank you.

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Lapuna Nejilii
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-07-19 17:12:24 UTC
As many said, customizable certs would be great, we could use it to plan our skill training, to guide new players more easily, etc.
Tampopo Field
Doomheim
#220 - 2013-07-19 20:25:38 UTC
The current certificate system is almost completely pointless. The basic certificates can give new players some direction about what to train for. Or possibly Inform them about some skills they didn't know about and could get if they trained some skill or another a few levels. Also I believe the proposed skills and skill gorups renaming and organisation thingy, if implemented, will further reduce the usefullness of certificates.

Personally the only reason I even bother to claim certificates is because the "you can claim this many certificates" announcement every time I log in is annoying. As for certificate visibility, showing what certificates you have, or even how many certificates you have, is practically giving out free information to people who'd like nothing more then to reduce your ship to a smoldering pile, loot all you had fitted and stored in your caro hold(s), salvage the wreck for some scrap to sell, crack open your pod, and add your cadaver to some creepy collection of cold dead corpses used for god only knows what. And wishes to himself/herself that he/her didn't.

The contets of the certificates are also dated and do not, beyond the most basic level, reflect in any meaningful way, to a character's ability to fly this ship or tha effectivly. It was proposed (too lazy to look for a quoute) that the certificates could be reworked into something that would reflect more accurately the requirements to fly effectively the doctorines used in todays meta. How ever, doing this would meat that the certification planner would give dated information when the meta has changed. Doing so would also either leave a large number of docorines out of the certificates or require far too mutch work.

All that being said, remaking the system into something that would allow corporations and alliances to create their own certificates could be very useful. These certificates could be set visible to corporation members or corporation members with a spesific role. This type of system would make it easier for new-player friendly corporations to give recommendations about what to train, give corporations/alliances that use doctorine fleest an easy tool to tell their members what they should train for their doctorines, as well as giving those same corporations/alliances more easy a means to make sure the members could actually fly the doctorines properly.

Notification: Because I'm lazy, I have a tendency to post without proof reading. This may result in various errors including but not limited to typos, weird typos, grammatical errors, bizarre sentence structure, words written repeatedly, mislocated paragraphs, pointlessly complicated explanations, general incoherency, and abrupt endings.