Skill Discussions

sorry for double post

As if ISK had ever been relevant. You probably faint every time you see a deadspace module then?

Yes, if you had the choice between multiboxing 10 pilots in T1 fits vs. 1 pilot in T2, the former would be a lot stronger.

Usually the limiting factor for an encounter is the availability of pilots, NOT the availability of ISK to fit out your ships. Otherwise there would be no reason whatsoever for people to fly expensive stuff like T3 cruisers or pirate ships, much less with deadspace or faction fits.



Raiding empty WHs or occupied by carebears?

How did your new pilots end up when they met some of the T3 flying WH entities?

T2 heavy missiles or heavy assault missiles only take like 11 days to train if you're in an decent remap. So just do it.

Then you can discover that you won't be doing 900 dps just by having T2, since you're lacking support skills. Another couple weeks to get those all to 4.

Then you'll discover that your awesome 700dps Drake doesn't hit cruisers or frigates for any damage whatsoever because you're using ammo with too large of an explosion radius, so most of that damage is wasted on L3s. So you'll switch back to T1 or faction ammo and then realize that you're only doing like 8% more damage than you would with meta 4 launchers.

If you think that there's some huge barrier preventing you from doing what you want to do, you're not theory crafting hard enough.

With all due respect I don't get this logic.
If you use a tech2 hardener over a tech1 you absorb 10% more damage assuming you are filling a 0 resist gap.
So say 30% base resist with tech 1 that's 80% with tech 2 that's 85% 25% less damage.
I really don't need to point out the multiplying force of resists combined with boost/repairs.
All in all this and the fact most skills have certain multiplicative properties to the point where skill at lvl 1 adds 2% dps and skill lvl 5 adds 3.3 while also being a prerequisite for the same skills "advanced" version and taking between 4/5 to 24 days to finish with perfect remaps and +5 implants.
Or the wonderfully tight fitted ships that need fitting skills 5 and secondary skills at 4-5.

Support skills will eat you up as a noob, and in a competitive atmosphere as a noob expecting PvP it can be a real cold shower.
Now I can see that in EvE unless you join a corp you can fly tech1 frigs with all 5 skills and you will die in a blaze of fire just about every time.
But its not a matter of getting gun skills or missiles it is. Gun skills+missiles, gun skills+drones, lasers+perfect energy skills, missiles+perfect fitting skills.
I really believe that the basic skill set could be a little more elaborate, not as in instant viable marketing alt or instant anything.
More like if a noob wants to fly into low sec and fly with the big boys he can without spending 2 months on being able to eve nfit a tech1 frig.
At first start 2 months is a long time to even get to knowing the game, and waiting to be able to fit a mwd and tech2 missile launchers= not learning.
A newb can figure out that increasing weapon skills will increase damage output/effectiveness, the non damage modules create far more confusion then this simple concept.

Say a noob starts with specific frigate weapon system and ships skills at 4 or 5 even, I say awesome you have something to fall back on AND you can find out if you want to fly said races cruisers or cross-train to other races and start over.
Then they can still toy around with fitting skills etc. as long as you keep the boost for noobs at weapon-systems and frigate skills (mostly) there will still be plenty to do if you start of with gallente frigate and hybrid weapons 4.

Also make a tutorial about skills and emphasize the **** out of implants.
Although I dislike all things that discourage pvp like clone costs and implants to train faster (essentially creating PvE only clones for low sp/isk players).

P.S. So to summarize I suggest that letting people choose one specific weapon-system and empires frigates at high skill.
It will stop them from hopping and get them to understand the difference between a low SP boat and a high SP boat right away instead of wandering through seas of SP aimlessly.
A comparative standard and a place to feel like you are good at something right away, even if its only gallente frigates for say being awesome at it (more a feeling then a fact) will make people invest a little more into what they have already instead of flying onwards to something that will be a noticeable step down.
I mean part of rushing a BS is not feeling competent at all at flying a frigate, as backward as it may sound people end up saying ohh well might as well go for the Porsche.
Having gallente frigate 4 and hybrid weapons 5 will give you something to commit to right off the bat.

Also you're talking about the skills YOU PERSONALLY perceive as "comfortable". You most certainly do NOT need 200 days of training to make a T1 cruiser perform decently enough compared to a perfect skilled veteran.

Yes, there are borderline cases where skills make the difference. So what? If you don't go out and PvP because of that 20% difference, then perhaps your simply too risk adverse to PvP. Even a highly skilled player constantly finds themselves in situations where their opponents have more tackle range, more EHP, more speed, more dps... fleet boosters, faction modules, implants, all of these can easily give your opponent that edge and much more. You simply adapt on the spot, sometimes to excellent success, sometimes to the loss of your ship.

Sitting is the right word. You still wouldn't know how to fly it.

I know I don't.

I am quiet sure they are useful on your highsec mission boat. Or maybe Sleeperboat? Doesnt matter, their are not many ships, that warrant the use of deadspace modules. ISK effectiveness is important, to me at least. It takes way to long for a bling fitted ship to repay itself.




We are talking about newbros here, not about 5+ year old dudes. (And in this age, their are still people hideously poor) For a new player without PvP experience, it would be a really bad advise to tell them to T2 fit. because they will die... a lot. And for them, a 30 mil T1 Cruiser+fit is many hours of grinding.



Both questions miss the mark. They went in, had balls you know (google that word), and went out with 100 mil for two players. That was a lot of money for them.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.

Yeah, I think that is too much to ask ... (~3M SP nooblet here)

New players already know, or find out quickly, what a difficult game Eve can be - some of us like the challenge of learning to operate in a super-hostile shark tank with space rocks - some do not.

How do those questions miss the mark?

That's what a huge chunk of SP difference boils down to.
You're sitting in a Drake and find yourself against a Tengu, or a Hurricane and meet a Sleipnir (yeah i know, CS not T3, but same principle).

Yes, good recon can mitigate that somewhat. But only insofar as it helps you AVOID those matchups.

I.e. your veteran slepinir gang could consider to risk roaming that WH with a similar amount of canes on dscan. Your newbro cane gang would leave silently.



Again supporting my point, cos 100M is surely not a lot of money for a veteran who can breeze through lvl4s or incursions.

(Nor for a new-ish trader, admittedly)