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Market Scamming is an Exploit

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#221 - 2013-07-10 01:24:05 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
... waits for the part of this thread where we all sit around the campfire, join hands, light a spliff and sing "Kumbaya"... Roll


Sorry, I'm a chemist. I prefer to consume my intoxicants through blotter paper.

What are hands?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#222 - 2013-07-10 02:25:42 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sorry, I'm a chemist. I prefer to consume my intoxicants through blotter paper.
What, so DMSO cocktails are not good enough for you? Pff…
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#223 - 2013-07-10 02:40:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sorry, I'm a chemist. I prefer to consume my intoxicants through blotter paper.
What, so DMSO cocktails are not good enough for you? Pff…


Not being a horse...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#224 - 2013-07-10 02:58:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Not being a horse...
…as if that was ever a good argument for some people not to inject/ingest/inhale whatever was on hand. P
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#225 - 2013-07-10 04:35:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Not being a horse...
…as if that was ever a good argument for some people not to inject/ingest/inhale whatever was on hand. P


After all, how else are you going to discover novel artificial sweeteners?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-07-10 11:29:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Margin trading is not considered an exploit.

However, if you do run into a legitimate exploit in game, feel free to file a support ticked via the F12 menu in game.

Alternatively, if you dislike margin trading and would like to suggest changes, please feel free to speak to the CSM, or post suggestions for changes in the Features & Ideas Discussion Forum.


Geez! I thought the subject was settled when he spoke up.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#227 - 2013-07-10 11:31:03 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

Geez! I thought the subject was settled when he spoke up.

Some people don't understand the word "NO"

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#228 - 2013-07-10 14:30:31 UTC
Daisai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Daisai wrote:
There is a way in fixing this, you can add a filter on the market which allow you to ignore buy orders which have been placed with this skil.

Congratulations, you just completely broke the market. Using a filter to remove buy orders placed with the margin trading skill would filter out about 90% of all the buy orders currently in place.

In short, you're advocating punishing the many legitimate traders who use the skill, to protect the greedy idiots who think they can make a quick profit and end up getting scammed.



It seems the level of posters is ones again pretty low on this forum.
I dont see a reason to change this skill, i dont agree with its use but its fine with me.

I simply made a suggestion on how to come to a compromise between people against this skill and the people who use it.
If you use the filter to ignore buy orders which have bee placed with margin trading the only person who losses money in such a case is the seller since he/she has less buy orders to sell to.

So the people who use this skill without the scamming are hardly effected by this.

Anyway like i said, i dont care if they change this skill im just giving a suggestion.


It's no different than me whining about losing my internet pixels to superior pilot and whining about it.

In fact here is my compromise. Remove all ships from eve because of the exploit of shooting spaceships and we can all bounce around in pods. You can still fly and ignore the gankers, gatecampers, and ebil piwates.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#229 - 2013-07-10 16:42:04 UTC
No sorry.

Anyone with the BAREST AMOUNT OF EFFORT can open the IGB to eve-central or eve-marketdata, check the price of the "OMG THIS IS AN EPIC OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE 8000 BILLION ISK, how no one else thought of this before, I AM A GENIUS" item and see how it is sold everywhere else for 10mill to 50mill and is being bought at somewhere else at 999999999 billions.

If you can´t see the gross difference there, you deserve the scam. Like Baltec said, these things GLOW IN THE DARK,


But, let´s pretend this EVE PLAYER, does not know about these websites, he can then use then the Ingame channels dedicated to price checking or even jump the 10 to 20 jumps it takes to go to another market hub if he really really hates people and wants to do everything on his own so he can check.

Let´s even pretend none of this worked for Random_Lt_Generic_Drop_0006 and is nowhere to be seen in any hub, the fact someone asks for a MINIMUM of them and curiously the hub itself has them for sale at the same time should after all these stages ring a bell ...

What you want now? A popup that says "CAVEAT EMPTOR, MUDER*****R" every time you buy someting?

There´s no excuse, no form whatsoever of this SKILL not working as intended, the SCAM happens somewhere else.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#230 - 2013-07-10 16:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Kalliel Egnald wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kalliel Egnald wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an exploit, any more than jump one guy in your gang through a gate, letting the gate campers attack him, and then jumping the rest of your guys through to murder them while they have aggro.

You got owned in market PvP; you can either get better or quit. Whichever, stop complaining that you lost a fight.


The post is not a complaint, and the exploit in question is utilizing something to bypass current in game rule sets on buy orders via the player wallet.



Bullshit. You got scammed and you're trying to get it declared an exploit rather than admit you got tricked.


nope, never been scammed, mostly because i don't care to talk to people to get scammed. i mine, mission, and basically anything else allowed for a lonewolf to do. And if i get scammed, then that is just the luck of the draw as far as i am concerned. Market PvP is just as valid a method as combat PvP.

what i am declaring an exploit is how using margin trading you can intentionally default yourself with out any real consequence.



agree 100%, however some players as well as CSM Malcanis are not used to common sense, so they think a scam should have never consequences for the scammer, they need those game mechanics in order for them to get advantage of others, because they are missing skill and brainpower to succeed in a different way

like in real life, scammers are those who are unable to succeed in life, therefore try to succeed at the expense of others

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#231 - 2013-07-10 17:05:50 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
agree 100%, however some players as well as CSM Malcanis are not used to common sense, so they think a scam should have never consequences for the scammer, they need those game mechanics in order for them to get advantage of others, because they are missing skill and brainpower to succeed in a different way
…you mean aside from the fact that there are as many consequences for the scammers as for everyone else; that no special game mechanics are needed to take advantage of others; and that the ones who are asking for special consideration and mechanics are those who want there to be no consequences for their easily avoided mistake?

Skill, brainpower and common sense keeps you safe from all scams. If none of those are needed to be a scammer, what does that tell you about the people who fall for the scams?

Quote:
like in real life, scammers are those who are unable to succeed in life
You haven't spent much time in “real life” have you? Lol
Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-07-10 17:06:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an exploit, any more than jump one guy in your gang through a gate, letting the gate campers attack him, and then jumping the rest of your guys through to murder them while they have aggro.

You got owned in market PvP; you can either get better or quit. Whichever, stop complaining that you lost a fight.



Personally I would expect more from a CSM member than some half baked drivel to publicise his presence.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#233 - 2013-07-10 17:07:16 UTC
Scrutt5 wrote:
Personally I would expect more from a CSM member than some half baked drivel to publicise his presence.


"this CSM member disagrees with me, how dare he"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mag's
Azn Empire
#234 - 2013-07-10 22:49:29 UTC
Scrutt5 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not an exploit, any more than jump one guy in your gang through a gate, letting the gate campers attack him, and then jumping the rest of your guys through to murder them while they have aggro.

You got owned in market PvP; you can either get better or quit. Whichever, stop complaining that you lost a fight.



Personally I would expect more from a CSM member than some half baked drivel to publicise his presence.

How much ISK did you lose?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#235 - 2013-07-10 23:05:48 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

agree 100%, however some players as well as CSM Malcanis are not used to common sense, so they think a scam should have never consequences for the scammer, they need those game mechanics in order for them to get advantage of others, because they are missing skill and brainpower to succeed in a different way

like in real life, scammers are those who are unable to succeed in life, therefore try to succeed at the expense of others

So using the word 'bullshit' is bad, but personal attacks are fine?

Makes me wonder how you would react, losing a queen in chess.

You sir, are a hypocrite.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2013-07-10 23:10:32 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
No sorry.

Anyone with the BAREST AMOUNT OF EFFORT can open the IGB to eve-central or eve-marketdata, check the price of the "OMG THIS IS AN EPIC OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE 8000 BILLION ISK, how no one else thought of this before, I AM A GENIUS" item and see how it is sold everywhere else for 10mill to 50mill and is being bought at somewhere else at 999999999 billions.

If you can´t see the gross difference there, you deserve the scam. Like Baltec said, these things GLOW IN THE DARK,


But, let´s pretend this EVE PLAYER, does not know about these websites, he can then use then the Ingame channels dedicated to price checking or even jump the 10 to 20 jumps it takes to go to another market hub if he really really hates people and wants to do everything on his own so he can check.

Let´s even pretend none of this worked for Random_Lt_Generic_Drop_0006 and is nowhere to be seen in any hub, the fact someone asks for a MINIMUM of them and curiously the hub itself has them for sale at the same time should after all these stages ring a bell ...

What you want now? A popup that says "CAVEAT EMPTOR, MUDER*****R" every time you buy someting?

There´s no excuse, no form whatsoever of this SKILL not working as intended, the SCAM happens somewhere else.



Unless they're a new player and not realizing the game is all about thieving in ways that other games don't tolerate (and if they do tolerate it, have means for players to extract a revenge that's worth even baiting scammers to justify being scammed...like mounting their head on a pike before a town gate and letting it sit there for days -- I played some rough PvP games where posses don't play when items cost $5,000 RL money. Thieving is a capital offense and worthy of capital punishment. Not this nerd way of playing).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Mag's
Azn Empire
#237 - 2013-07-10 23:13:57 UTC
Yes it's the games fault they knew nothing about it before playing. I agree and I bet they do things a lot better in WoW.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#238 - 2013-07-10 23:14:31 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Unless they're a new player
…in which case they won't have enough ISK to really fall victim to this (or any other ISK-related) scam. By the time they do, they will be old enough and should know better.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2013-07-10 23:23:31 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Yes it's the games fault they knew nothing about it before playing. I agree and I bet they do things a lot better in WoW.


I wasn't talking about WoW.

I was talking about a much rougher PvP game than EvE. Consequences for thieving is having their heads mounted on pikes for all the game to see for days. Not playing docking games and running around with alts to escape "justice". In that game, thieves could rob player stores and if you die all your gold drops too (why banks exist), which is why players had their own police force...with a nasty way of payback (including pissing on the severed head).

EvE isn't the roughest PvP game out there. There's worse.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#240 - 2013-07-11 02:19:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

Geez! I thought the subject was settled when he spoke up.

Some people don't understand the word "NO"



What does Nitric Oxide have to do with anything?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon