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Financial Fraud, Cartels, Monopoly, API's and you.

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Ricard Chastot
Snake Eye Production
#41 - 2013-07-09 22:08:53 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
But how many corporate spies are going to be stupid enough to use the same account? A 2nd account costs the same as just using an alt (unless you stop training your main I suppose)... It's not like any corp is going to transfer 50m ISK into a plant's account just before he provides the API to the target corp... Or, if they are, they're probably too incompetent to extract decent information in the first place.

Meh, I'm over my rant.... won't be handing out complete APIs to anyone which I suppose means I won't be corped any time soon... Don't know what one is supposed to do - the first month at this game is nothing but a bunch of horror stories about people being conned and bilke all the time, but when you join a corp they just want you to give them everything you've done ever and risk that they'll turn you down anyway after finding out anything uniqure you might have run across. You're supposed to be paranoid as all heck of getting sucide ganked just for kicks in high-sec when you're starting out, but not worried that if xyz random corp you're trying to apply for says you must trust them 100% without even having talked to them for 1 minute and turn over your API key to them, including everything and every location you've been.

Seems insane.

But, hey, if for some reason your corp found a better way to screen secuirty, you might do well demonizing your opponents for demanding absolutely full API keys by telling them they're using it to ambush noobs and corner markets...



I never thought I'd say this, but you may be too paranoid for Eve.

Hello ladies (and dudes pretending to be ladies)! Say hello to New Eden's 2nd hottest Intaki! It's me. You can say hello to me. Hi.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#42 - 2013-07-09 22:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Ash Holloway wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
You two and your market gems should hook up and make some pretty jewellery.

If you find a niche, there's nothing stopping anyone from finding it too, in fact it's probably a lot more productive to just trade than look through dozens of people's API keys.

If you think it is such a great great source of information, then why not try it out? Create your own corp, collect their API keys and see what you can do with it, it would be interesting to see what you find.


Hahahaha


There's that nervous laughter again.

Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:

But how many corporate spies are going to be stupid enough to use the same account? A 2nd account costs the same as just using an alt (unless you stop training your main I suppose)... It's not like any corp is going to transfer 50m ISK into a plant's account just before he provides the API to the target corp... Or, if they are, they're probably too incompetent to extract decent information in the first place.

[...] You're supposed to be paranoid as all heck of getting sucide ganked just for kicks in high-sec when you're starting out, but not worried that if xyz random corp you're trying to apply for says you must trust them 100% without even having talked to them for 1 minute and turn over your API key to them, including everything and every location you've been.

Seems insane.

But, hey, if for some reason your corp found a better way to screen secuirty, you might do well demonizing your opponents for demanding absolutely full API keys by telling them they're using it to ambush noobs and corner markets...


If you have spies in your corp, the last of your worries is someone getting hold of your API.

You should always be aware of the risks of what you do, whether that's giving out your API key, joining a corp (CONCORD will not avenge you if a corp member destroys your ship), or flying around with expensive cargo, doesn't mean you should become a hermit and trust nobody though.

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arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#43 - 2013-07-10 06:57:15 UTC
"no one takes me into a corp because im noob" thread with an MD twist... Original :)

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

flakeys
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-07-10 10:35:03 UTC
Op by Any chance friends with Harry THE clown?

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#45 - 2013-07-10 10:47:57 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
"no one takes me into a corp because im noob" thread with an MD twist... Original :)


It really had nothing to do with that, I wasn't applying to Goonswarm or anything. I was applying to guilds that said "we like noobs" in so many words. But, hey, I'm not giving anyone my financials and locations API's. That is, of course, because I don't want anyone to see how I make almost a million a day on Tritanium. I assume corps that don't want noobs don't put up "we take new players" in their descriptions. Regardless, I'm not going to be grifted before I even get my bearings as to the general layout of things. I would be of the belief that if anyone is actually going to be assigned to spy on your corp, they're, firstly, not going to be argumentative about an API key because they're not going to be stupid enough to make a character to be a spy and then hand it a billion and try to pass it off as a noob.

The "recruiter" who demanded my API couldn't even properly capitalize the first person singular pronoun "I." At the end of the day, I'm especially not handing my financial and industry API to half-wits or people so lazy they can't use shift.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#46 - 2013-07-10 10:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
Ricard Chastot wrote:
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
But how many corporate spies are going to be stupid enough to use the same account? A 2nd account costs the same as just using an alt (unless you stop training your main I suppose)... It's not like any corp is going to transfer 50m ISK into a plant's account just before he provides the API to the target corp... Or, if they are, they're probably too incompetent to extract decent information in the first place.

Meh, I'm over my rant.... won't be handing out complete APIs to anyone which I suppose means I won't be corped any time soon... Don't know what one is supposed to do - the first month at this game is nothing but a bunch of horror stories about people being conned and bilke all the time, but when you join a corp they just want you to give them everything you've done ever and risk that they'll turn you down anyway after finding out anything uniqure you might have run across. You're supposed to be paranoid as all heck of getting sucide ganked just for kicks in high-sec when you're starting out, but not worried that if xyz random corp you're trying to apply for says you must trust them 100% without even having talked to them for 1 minute and turn over your API key to them, including everything and every location you've been.

Seems insane.

But, hey, if for some reason your corp found a better way to screen secuirty, you might do well demonizing your opponents for demanding absolutely full API keys by telling them they're using it to ambush noobs and corner markets...



I never thought I'd say this, but you may be too paranoid for Eve.


Really? Could you please send me your complete API, financial transactions, assets, wallet, research projects, ships, fittings, etc.. If it's really no big deal there's no reason you shouldn't hand it over now...

Better yet, post it right here for everyone... If you're not paranoid.

Here's how my conversation went with this corp recruiter... I sent an application without financial info even though it clearly stated I needed full API. I told him if he wanted the full API including all my financials, it wasn't the corp for me. He responded, this person I've never met nor spoke with "we only want people who trust us 100%."

Fair enough, trust is important with a corp, but who tells someone they don't know something like that? And who are the people who trust 100% without even knowing those people? I felt like I accidentally asked a Scientologist for directions or something... I mean, I did read that someone managed to steal a trillion ISK this year or last or something right? That's a lot of peoples' money down the tubes. All that money filters up from somewhere though I suppose you could tell me it's all from null-sec rat farming and none of it was from naive noobs who trusted people 100%....

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#47 - 2013-07-10 10:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
Rhivre wrote:
Why the rush to be corped if you are only trading?

There is little benefit from being in a corp as someone who just trades, and if its for the social aspect, there are other channels in eve than corp chat.

The only benefit is corp wallets and storing in market deliveries, which is why many traders have their own corp.

Past that, its easy, plenty of corps do not need a full API key, look through the ads and find one who does not.


There's jump clones, mining ops, low sec work, etc.

I would start my own corp, but I have a feeling I'd be war-deced immediately and be a fair game target in high sec. Not really in the mood for that until I've got a POS...

But you and I both know that corps that want to build capital ships and revenants and the such are not going to play stupid with the market, and that means gathering intel from APIs. Might even be worth your while just to set up a few pseudo corps on various alts and accounts just to allow major data influx.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Hoo Yodaad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-07-10 12:09:23 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
"no one takes me into a corp because im noob" thread with an MD twist... Original :)


It really had nothing to do with that, I wasn't applying to Goonswarm or anything. I was applying to guilds that said "we like noobs" in so many words. But, hey, I'm not giving anyone my financials and locations API's. That is, of course, because I don't want anyone to see how I make almost a million a day on Tritanium. I assume corps that don't want noobs don't put up "we take new players" in their descriptions. Regardless, I'm not going to be grifted before I even get my bearings as to the general layout of things. I would be of the belief that if anyone is actually going to be assigned to spy on your corp, they're, firstly, not going to be argumentative about an API key because they're not going to be stupid enough to make a character to be a spy and then hand it a billion and try to pass it off as a noob.

The "recruiter" who demanded my API couldn't even properly capitalize the first person singular pronoun "I." At the end of the day, I'm especially not handing my financial and industry API to half-wits or people so lazy they can't use shift.



You'd do well to have someone steal your secret of how you can somehow make 1mil a day trading... they may take pity on you and teach you how to actually make money.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#49 - 2013-07-10 12:17:34 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Why the rush to be corped if you are only trading?

There is little benefit from being in a corp as someone who just trades, and if its for the social aspect, there are other channels in eve than corp chat.

The only benefit is corp wallets and storing in market deliveries, which is why many traders have their own corp.

Past that, its easy, plenty of corps do not need a full API key, look through the ads and find one who does not.


There's jump clones, mining ops, low sec work, etc.

I would start my own corp, but I have a feeling I'd be war-deced immediately and be a fair game target in high sec. Not really in the mood for that until I've got a POS...

But you and I both know that corps that want to build capital ships and revenants and the such are not going to play stupid with the market, and that means gathering intel from APIs. Might even be worth your while just to set up a few pseudo corps on various alts and accounts just to allow major data influx.



Jump clones = Estel Arador Corp (free service)
Mining Ops = Friends are available for this
Low Sec work = No need for a corp

POS Standings = Estel Arador Corp

Why would you be immediately decced in high sec?

Corps that build capital ships and revenants and such (BTW, that was a personal Rev, not PLs own one), well, there are quite a few Cap builders I know who are in one man corps, but, maybe we just move in different circles, and you run into people who have managed to get Sov and be a major alliance without knowing how to use the market.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-07-10 12:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
this topic is like a horrible internet car wreck with flames leaking out from underneath the hood...

I should buy an Ishtar.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#51 - 2013-07-10 13:02:41 UTC
I wrote a very long response, but you are just not worth it.
Station trader afraid from wardec? Wardec in high sec and a pos saves you? Million from trit? Get lost.

/STOP WORRING AND LOVEDABOMBERSSS

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#52 - 2013-07-10 13:36:09 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
I wrote a very long response, but you are just not worth it.
Station trader afraid from wardec? Wardec in high sec and a pos saves you? Million from trit? Get lost.

/STOP WORRING AND LOVEDABOMBERSSS


Troll be trolled... Clearly I am not worried about a million from Tritanium - which I haven't ever sold - though that should have been apparent. I am of the understanding that you can't have a POS without a corp, therefore, I wouldn't want to be off running my own corp just for your personal ganking pleasure until I had a POS... understand the line of reasoning now? It's almost as hard as electical engineering, but not quite... Why get wardecced before you have the resources for a POS? Sounds like a waste of Concord ownage of gankers to me...

I just passed some guy from a corp called "noobs4noobs" - been around for a month and has about 1.5 billion in war losses. When members of this game put people who enjoy seeing people commit suicide and the like in charge of their alliances, I'd rather just not get wardecced until there's some reason I absolutely must be in my own personal corps.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#53 - 2013-07-10 13:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
Daniel Plain wrote:
this topic is like a horrible internet car wreck with flames leaking out from underneath the hood...


Shouldn't need a full API to join a corp. That's like telling The Mittani you just got divorced

You guys should really stop complaining that I told all the mathematically foolish your little scam with the financial APIs - I know your labor racketeers will be annoyed that people might expect to not turn over finacial and trade info to corps, but, hey, that's how the system works.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#54 - 2013-07-10 13:45:45 UTC
The chances of there being any useful financial information in a true newbie character's API is extremely small. The people in the corp are probably making 100's of millions to billions of ISK per day. Your million ISK per day is just too small scale for them to bother with. It is also most likely not very secret. If a few week old character knows about it, a veteran player of years would know about it as well.

A veteran player of years might have some useful trade information in the API, but even that is unlikely. There just aren't that many secrets in how to make ISK in Eve.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-07-10 13:54:52 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
this topic is like a horrible internet car wreck with flames leaking out from underneath the hood...


Shouldn't need a full API to join a corp. That's like telling The Mittani you just got divorced

You guys should really stop complaining that I told all the mathematically foolish your little scam with the financial APIs - I know your labor racketeers will be annoyed that people might expect to not turn over finacial and trade info to corps, but, hey, that's how the system works.

at this point i hope you're trolling as to not lose my faith in humanity....

I should buy an Ishtar.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#56 - 2013-07-10 13:58:29 UTC
He doesnt need your api to know how make isk. If he set up this "network" of fake corps to learn how to do it, trust that he could have figured it out by themselves already. Buy low, sell high.

If you met so many idiots recruting? Shouldnt you not be scared because they arent that big brother master mind you **** your pants thinking of??

Yeah, first build your pos, then get war decced...your tears will be my joy :)

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#57 - 2013-07-10 14:05:28 UTC
If you can turn 10 billion into 14 billion inside a week, you have secrets worth stealing. (And capital)

If you can only turn 1b into 1.2b, your secrets are not worth stealing at all.

But it's EVE - a game where trusting someone gives them power over you. Everyone should exercise due diligence before trusting someone, just as you would exercise due diligence before jumping into Rancher from high sec.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#58 - 2013-07-10 14:07:01 UTC
Molic Blackbird wrote:
The chances of there being any useful financial information in a true newbie character's API is extremely small. The people in the corp are probably making 100's of millions to billions of ISK per day. Your million ISK per day is just too small scale for them to bother with. It is also most likely not very secret. If a few week old character knows about it, a veteran player of years would know about it as well.

A veteran player of years might have some useful trade information in the API, but even that is unlikely. There just aren't that many secrets in how to make ISK in Eve.


You're full of nonsense... now, it's not much, but I found a full large Jaspet perimeter deposit just sitting in a high sec system. It stayed for 3 days and nobody touched it but me... picked about 100 mil in ore out of it over the period of three days without a single other person mining there once - not bad for a noob in a retriever. Why I am going to give my locations to some corp if I can find systems nobody checks? If I like the corp, chances are I'd tell them to come pick it clean with me, but I'm not giving it over to recruiters right away...

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#59 - 2013-07-10 14:20:10 UTC
100 million ore over 3 days = just over 30 million a day.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#60 - 2013-07-10 14:21:13 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
If you can turn 10 billion into 14 billion inside a week, you have secrets worth stealing. (And capital)

If you can only turn 1b into 1.2b, your secrets are not worth stealing at all.

But it's EVE - a game where trusting someone gives them power over you. Everyone should exercise due diligence before trusting someone, just as you would exercise due diligence before jumping into Rancher from high sec.


I have no idea what "Rancher" means... is that a corp or soverignty?

People have different secrets worth stealing at different levels. If I'm applying to a high sec corp, any secrets I might have gleaned would be more valuable than those who have several systems of Crokite at their beck and call...

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."