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yoni
DU5T
#21 - 2013-07-10 07:51:14 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:
I also gave some money to the Chris Roberts kickstarter. Perhaps it will be a nice space game.
It definitely focuses on aspects I'd love to see in EVE, but it never will be on the same international/one shard scale.

You played EVE for 10 years, what do you expect? I can eat spaghetti thrice a week, but then I'd give up and go get something else.

Take a break and wait till the game changes or you miss it. Or stay away from it...

And, no, I won't even ask for your stuff. I'm still having fun here, though.
That's my trouble, I was on a break since 2010 and just got back. Shocked Hanging out at RobersSpaceIndustries made me sign up here...


It also bugs me that CCP punishes old players with clones that cost more than the small, fun to fly ships...
yoni
DU5T
#22 - 2013-07-10 07:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: yoni
Verunae Caseti wrote:
EVERY hobby, when boiled down to its constituent parts, seems trivial and nonsensical.

WoW is just pressing certain colored buttons in a specific sequence and not standing where mods tell you not to stand.

Chess is just moving silly wooden pieces around on a checkerboard.

Knitting is basically watching yarn have sex.

LoL excellent, I shall start knitting!


Verunae Caseti wrote:

When I do complicated, difficult, involved things that have real-world consequences, guess what? I get paid.
You nailed it on this one! This was always the feeling I got about EVE after about the first 6-8 months of playing... it was like something I should be getting paid for.

Cause EVE does match what you just said, including real-world consequences, as the amount of time you have to spend to fix or engender in-game consequences is so large, it steals your time from actually doing creative stuff in the real world. I've spent amazing amounts of time just waiting around in Alliance fleets with nothing happening. Sure, its fun, when finally something happens and the server doesn't break down from too many ships (I heard they improved this now)

I think need a consequence free game, where making game money matters little or nothing, that doesn't try to emulate the capitalist part of life.

This is where the mismatch is: Even though EVE is being billed as a space game, the larger part of it is an emulation of capitalism.

Maybe I'll be back if I end up in a wheelchair or something...
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-07-10 08:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorden Ishonen
Robert Saint wrote:
What you are feeling is the biggest problem I have seen in the much shorter time I've been playing...... that is

Innovation and change are frowned on in EVE to a very large extent, because most long term players are worried that ANY
real change will somehow mess up the eco system and the EVE-world will come to an end....... so as a result.

1) PVE (HighSec) is the same as when i started playing a few years ago. PVPers try to bane it!
2) PVP is still "Open world" only for the most part with no Arenas as in most all other MMO's, so it's hard get in to it.


The ships don't even have Cockpit WINDOWS.... how in the world can you see out of them?



If you don't believe me, just read most forum posts that try to add value.... they get beat down..... "I was born in this whole, and I'll die in this whole"...


I enjoy the game though, mostly because I love the space thing and there is nothing else.


Innovation and change are very much encouraged. However, it's more encouraged from the players than the developers. That's because the best development approach is an iterative process: small adjustments made to what already exists. This is necessary because EVE does have a very vibrant economy. There's a reason CCP hired a bloody PhD to manage the economy, who literally does nothing else.

1. EVE is a PvP game. Period. The End. If you are not docked, you can be shot at and killed, the security status only changes the difficulty of killing your ship. You may not enjoy or partake in PvP, and that is perfectly fine. But you need to be prepared for it to happen, and whining that the devs won't create a designated "PVE" area in the game is futile given their explicit desire for EVE to be dangerous. Such complaints are only useful for amusement to other players.

2. That because CCP has created EVE to be "One world, one server." Instancing is antithetical to this premise. That said, FW is very good at generating places where you know PvP will be happening between two (semi)organized groups.

And two words: camera drone.

The "innovations" you suggest are not, in fact, innovations. They're features of MMOs with completely different design goals. CCP has not adopted them because they simply do not match with the design philosophy of EVE. This is a good thing; it means they've been paying attention to other MMOs.

Probably the most well-known example is Star Wars Galaxies, an MMO with a very sandbox focus to it. In fact, it had a lot of features in common with EVE. Professions were mix-and-match instead of set classes, most items were player crafted with the resources gathered by players as well, death was harsh in that your gear had a chance to fall apart when you repaired it, lofty heights such as being a Jedi were only attainable after huge investment into the game. Then, after seeing the success of WoW, Sony tried to add in more themepark elements: classes were now set, Jedi available at game start, drastic and sweeping changes to the combat system, and so on.

The effect was immediate: the game tanked. Despite massive and nearly unanimous outcry from the players, (those change-resisting hooligans!) Sony kept the changes, and as a result a game that once boasted 200,000 players had roughly 20,000 when the plug was finally pulled in 2011.

What went wrong? Simple: the developers, like you, did not understand design philosophy. They built 200k players on a sandbox platform, saw WoW's subscription numbers, and said "Hey, if we emulate that, maybe we can get some of those numbers!" Which was completely ludicrous: why would anyone play a sandbox game that had been jury-rigged to be a themepark when they could play the game designed and built around being a themepark from the start? However, those 180,000 players who wanted a sandbox promptly up and left, leaving SWG behind them to die.

So, the next time you complain about "most long term players being worried that ANY real change will somehow mess up the eco system and the EVE-world will come to an end," realize that attitude comes about for two reasons:

1. They're seen other MMOs make that mistake before and crash and burn for it.
2. They actually LIKE the game that EVE is, a unique sandbox that no other MMO offers.

EVE is constantly being changed and improved, but it will never go against the design principles that made it what it is today until the day it dies. If you have a problem with that, HTFU or leave. Your choice.
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-07-10 08:33:28 UTC
yoni wrote:

It also bugs me that CCP punishes old players with clones that cost more than the small, fun to fly ships...


That's getting looked at. They already slashed clone prices by 1/3 this expansion.


Shooting red crosses isn't difficult or involved. That's what your friend was remarking on. Do you think he would have said the same thing if you were leading a fleet?

Solo and small gang PvP seems to be the best mix of "not a job" and "difficult". At least that's what I hear, I'm a market man myself. Some might consider what I do joblike, but I guess I'm just weird. vOv
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#25 - 2013-07-10 08:38:41 UTC
yoni wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Ryu Ibarazaki wrote:
Start your own corporation and recruit some people.

Managing human beings instead of red crosses might be just what you need to make EVE fresh again.


Plus you mentioned something about a war effort? Why not combine the two? Twisted



Hmm, the guy who suggested starting a corporation missed that I played since 2003, I've had a corp, been involved in corps and alliances in every possible capacity.

And war is a lot less fun than small gang action...

Hell, when we were taking Delve, we waited and camped so long, FC's were either reading novels to the fleet or singing songs with bad guitar play, to keep the whole fleet from falling asleep in their chairs... Have you ever waited on scouts finding what they needed to find, or worse, waited in a cap ship for hours to be cleared to jump to the next boring POS shoot?

And that's not even the outright game failures, like fleets jumping into a system and being frozen or kicked off, and then being unable to get back in, knowing you just lost another ship without having fired a single shot...


Yeah I was kind of hinting at a more piratical way of playing the game then actual hisec wardecs, I have been involved in nullsec sov warfare for a couple of months and I know what you mean, its a snoozefest. It didn't suit me either and I learned what I didn't want to do. I found solace in scaling down to lowsec and caring less about stats and ISK and politics, and more about having a good time in solo / small gang pvp, piracy, and PI tax control. Just saying that you don't have to play in the ways you describe, it's more fun to get a few people together to achieve less ambitious goals first.
Fenix Caderu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-07-10 09:02:19 UTC
I'm in the same boat as you OP. Just returned after about 5-6 years away and hoping not to get bored again. So far I'm impressed with the changes but it could get better. With the new additions like Dust, CQ, hopefully leading to WiS, I like the direction CCP is going. My biggest gripe was the same...tired of shooting little red squares and feeling like I'm in a RTS. But in the end, it is the only game like it and the most immersive space flight game there is. Direct controls instead of mouse command would be nice, more immersive stuff to do while walking around, planet interaction, dust integration, all just might make it a complete MMORPG one day.

Until then, shoot more red squares...but maybe more interesting ones. Small gang is probably better for you...maybe FW. Try exploration, or ganking explorers. SB fleet and bomb stuff. Adjust camera angles when fighting too, try a little RP, becomes a known pirate, try bounty hunting, etc. you have to make it interesting.
Deborah Bat-Zeev
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-07-10 09:06:33 UTC
RvB, perhaps?

Casual, instant, cheap PvP with regular fun-oriented events. Clone costs don't matter as you rarely get podded. Though you may still ask where's the point in getting on killmails.

Personally I play Second Life. You can build weird stuff there and even sell it to make some RL money. Or just explore and enjoy the bizarre fetishes some people have. Or participate in the various RP sims people set up. If you are bored by Eve you might be ready for the experience to be a slave in the world of Gor.
yoni
DU5T
#28 - 2013-07-10 09:48:34 UTC
Gab Gateway wrote:
[quote=Verunae Caseti]He would have probably changed his mind if you actually talked about everything you do, plan to do or have done in past.


Not really, cause he was right, we used to do real things in the real world, creative stuff, like making leather jackets, fixing cars and driving all over europe with a bunch of friends. Making giant paintings. Almost setting the kitchen on fire, with a huge flame-out from melting wax to make candles, which served as a base for a new artwork, after we glued a small aluminum-folded airplane into the middle of the blackened cloud on the ceiling... Pirate

Along came the computer with the promise of creating music more easily, new forms of art. And in some ways it was more, but in other ways it was a lot less...

Still, computers have a way to eat your time and possibly more of you than you intended to give them.
yoni
DU5T
#29 - 2013-07-10 09:50:46 UTC
Fenix Caderu wrote:
I'm in the same boat as you OP. Just returned after about 5-6 years away and hoping not to get bored again. So far I'm impressed with the changes but it could get better. With the new additions like Dust.....


Dust looks great, wish they'd integrate that into EVE proper soon, cause I won't be buying a console - ever...
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-07-10 10:04:24 UTC
Stop to play the game start to play the meta game.

I stopped grinding for ISK with ratting / mining etc. when i discovered i could make money ingame by doing what i'm actually good at. Making Graphics for others... now i can do what i enjoy for others, they like my stuff so far, i get paid reasonably well with ingame money and whenever i log on i can pvp in whatever ships i want to. For me PvP is the fun and i absolutely hate grinding for money....

Having said that, there's loads of stuff you can come up with if you just have the idea. Some other friend started a business although in the first place he just wanted to expand his programming abilities abit, now it finances pretty much his eve life. Same outcome really.

Aside from pvp i find most stuff boring that the game offers so i try to avoid everything else as much as possible. (Aside from trading maybe, i find it highly enjoying to exploit market differences)

If you don't have moral problems start to infiltrate corps on contract, join the BU, be mean... its all within the game mechanics really and CCP endorses it even. I know of people who hang out the whole day in the "rookie help" channel with alts just because they like spreading their knowledge. Eve Uni instructors etc. etc. etc. There's so much stuff to do in this game if you just think outside of the box.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
yoni
DU5T
#31 - 2013-07-10 10:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: yoni
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:
RvB, perhaps?

Casual, instant, cheap PvP with regular fun-oriented events. Clone costs don't matter as you rarely get podded. Though you may still ask where's the point in getting on killmails.
This sounds good... You're right, I don't care about kill mails, I'm not interested in proving or showing off epeen, but getting into frequent, small fights always seemed to be the most fun.

what does RvB stand for?



Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:
Personally I play Second Life.
I will check that out, real cash might add to the aceptance of drawbacks. Online fetish sounds lame though. Kinda like an online restaurant where you're supposed to act like you're eating...

I'm planning to reduce computer involvement to work and only one game, and that will probably be Star Citizen if they don't foul it up in some major way... At least Microsoft isn't involved this time around, that increases chances a lot.

As for small fights, with my curse not being black anymore Evil, what's one of the better assault frigates these days? Jaguar and Wolf still competitive?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-10 10:27:37 UTC
yoni wrote:
Any suggestions on something truly new and fun to do in EVE? Well ok, cut out fun from the request, since that's subjective... how about just something new to do, that doesn't require weeks of isk grinding first?


...Burn out...

It happens to any gamer.

The only "cure" for it is to take a break and come back when the sci-fi bug hits you again. Otherwise, it's spinning the same wheels that made you take extended breaks like before (and risk finally never coming back again).

MMOs are about timesinking and settling on a routine for the long haul. Identify your main interest and find a game that delivers it the most without the hangups. For me PvP is what FPS games are designed for, so if I want to rumble and just PvP I fire up Battlefield and go a killing. FPS games don't have crafting though, which is why I play MMORPGs, so I can craft. This split keeps games fresh as when 1 genre gets tiring in the routine, I'll hop to another game for fun. Cycling like that breaks the monotony, and returning there's so many changes to get abreast to again to keep busy for another 3 to 6 months.

So find another genre of game. Play it for 3 to 6 months, and come back to EvE. There should be enough changes for you to be interested again in gameplay. EvE gets boring again, hop into the other game and rotate them every quarter of half a year. Leaving for such short bursts you also don't get so far behind, that 3 or 6 months can't catch up.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#33 - 2013-07-10 10:39:03 UTC
yoni wrote:
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:
RvB, perhaps?

Casual, instant, cheap PvP with regular fun-oriented events. Clone costs don't matter as you rarely get podded. Though you may still ask where's the point in getting on killmails.
This sounds good... You're right, I don't care about kill mails, I'm not interested in proving or showing off epeen, but getting into frequent, small fights always seemed to be the most fun.

what does RvB stand for?



Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:
Personally I play Second Life.
I will check that out, real cash might add to the aceptance of drawbacks. Online fetish sounds lame though. Kinda like an online restaurant where you're supposed to act like you're eating...

I'm planning to reduce computer involvement to work and only one game, and that will probably be Star Citizen if they don't foul it up in some major way... At least Microsoft isn't involved this time around, that increases chances a lot.

As for small fights, with my curse not being black anymore Evil, what's one of the better assault frigates these days? Jaguar and Wolf still competitive?


RvB= Red versus Blue

http://rvbeve.com/forums/index.php?/portal/

Enjoy the fighting! RvB is great fun!

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Thar Saal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-07-10 10:45:39 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
EVERY hobby, when boiled down to its constituent parts, seems trivial and nonsensical.

WoW is just pressing certain colored buttons in a specific sequence and not standing where mods tell you not to stand.

Chess is just moving silly wooden pieces around on a checkerboard.

Knitting is basically watching yarn have sex.

Leisure activities are supposed to be monotonous and simple. That is why they have a calming effect. When I do complicated, difficult, involved things that have real-world consequences, guess what? I get paid.



and i thought this thread was gonna be boring.

yarn having sex.

excellent. excellent.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-10 10:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
yoni wrote:
This sounds good... You're right, I don't care about kill mails, I'm not interested in proving or showing off epeen, but getting into frequent, small fights always seemed to be the most fun.


Take a mining barge or a Venture out to low sec and go mining. You will find yourself in a fight for your ship every few minutes, depending on where you go.

More generally, try something you haven't already tried. (I don't know what you have and haven't done, so I can't make a specific suggestion.) Beat someone up and take their money. Protect someone from such a person. Destroy a Titan. BUILD A TITAN. Evade consequence. Face consequence. BE someone else's consequence. **** someone off . . . no, really, make them furious Or make them happy. Get mad. Lose a ship. Steal a ship. Repair someone's ship. Find someone's ship . . . and run into it at full speed. Crash a market. Get podded in a Clone Grade Alpha. Give all your stuff away and biomass.

The possibilities are only as limited as you are. The limiting factor is yourself (and not just for EVE). If you cannot imagine something to do, that is because you lack imagination, or maybe you've just done it all. The one hard piece of advice I can give is to play zoomed in as much as possible. It still gives me a sense of vertigo every time I approach an object at a high rate of speed.
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-07-10 10:50:43 UTC
Thar Saal wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
EVERY hobby, when boiled down to its constituent parts, seems trivial and nonsensical.

WoW is just pressing certain colored buttons in a specific sequence and not standing where mods tell you not to stand.

Chess is just moving silly wooden pieces around on a checkerboard.

Knitting is basically watching yarn have sex.

Leisure activities are supposed to be monotonous and simple. That is why they have a calming effect. When I do complicated, difficult, involved things that have real-world consequences, guess what? I get paid.



and i thought this thread was gonna be boring.

yarn having sex.

excellent. excellent.



I'll be in my bunk.

With my wool blanket.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#37 - 2013-07-10 12:21:58 UTC
yoni wrote:
Gab Gateway wrote:
[quote=Verunae Caseti]He would have probably changed his mind if you actually talked about everything you do, plan to do or have done in past.


Not really, cause he was right, we used to do real things in the real world, creative stuff, like making leather jackets, fixing cars and driving all over europe with a bunch of friends. Making giant paintings. Almost setting the kitchen on fire, with a huge flame-out from melting wax to make candles, which served as a base for a new artwork, after we glued a small aluminum-folded airplane into the middle of the blackened cloud on the ceiling... Pirate

Along came the computer with the promise of creating music more easily, new forms of art. And in some ways it was more, but in other ways it was a lot less...

Still, computers have a way to eat your time and possibly more of you than you intended to give them.


Doing real things in the real world is always better than playing with/on computers.

Yet somehow the computers steal all the good time if you're not careful.

Bastards Ugh


So why not get out there and do some of that old-fashioned creative stuff Idea
yoni
DU5T
#38 - 2013-07-10 19:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: yoni
Fenix Caderu wrote:
I'm in the same boat as you OP. Just returned after about 5-6 years away and hoping not to get bored again. So far I'm impressed with the changes but it could get better.
I know, CCP is always working hard to improve everything! Its impossible to be mad at them, even though I would like to see more use for avatars. I think they are just stuck on this platform, which makes it impossible to add most of the features I'm interested in.


Fenix Caderu wrote:
With the new additions like Dust, CQ, hopefully leading to WiS, I like the direction CCP is going.
What is WiS...?




Fenix Caderu wrote:
My biggest gripe was the same...tired of shooting little red squares and feeling like I'm in a RTS. But in the end, it is the only game like it and the most immersive space flight game there is. Direct controls instead of mouse command would be nice, more immersive stuff to do while walking around, planet interaction, dust integration, all just might make it a complete MMORPG one day.

Until then, shoot more red squares...but maybe more interesting ones. Small gang is probably better for you...maybe FW. Try exploration, or ganking explorers. SB fleet and bomb stuff. Adjust camera angles when fighting too, try a little RP, becomes a known pirate, try bounty hunting, etc. you have to make it interesting.
I agree, I should have signed in my other account with my pure AF pilot, but I sure can't make any money on that one :P
yoni
DU5T
#39 - 2013-07-10 19:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: yoni
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
yoni wrote:
Gab Gateway wrote:
[quote=Verunae Caseti]He would have probably changed his mind if you actually talked about everything you do, plan to do or have done in past.


Not really, cause he was right, we used to do real things in the real world, creative stuff, like making leather jackets, fixing cars and driving all over europe with a bunch of friends. Making giant paintings. Almost setting the kitchen on fire, with a huge flame-out from melting wax to make candles, which served as a base for a new artwork, after we glued a small aluminum-folded airplane into the middle of the blackened cloud on the ceiling... Pirate

Along came the computer with the promise of creating music more easily, new forms of art. And in some ways it was more, but in other ways it was a lot less...

Still, computers have a way to eat your time and possibly more of you than you intended to give them.


Doing real things in the real world is always better than playing with/on computers.

Yet somehow the computers steal all the good time if you're not careful.

Bastards Ugh


So why not get out there and do some of that old-fashioned creative stuff Idea


lol right!

yeah, been working on changing the percentages of time allocation!

There will still be enough time to live as a brain in a jar later on, right?
yoni
DU5T
#40 - 2013-07-10 19:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: yoni
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
yoni wrote:
This sounds good... You're right, I don't care about kill mails, I'm not interested in proving or showing off epeen, but getting into frequent, small fights always seemed to be the most fun.


Take a mining barge or a Venture out to low sec and go mining. You will find yourself in a fight for your ship every few minutes, depending on where you go.
Doh! I like fights where I'm not a sitting duck Roll Not to mention, I never trained industrial stuff on this toon, just pure violence...


Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
More generally, try something you haven't already tried. (I don't know what you have and haven't done, so I can't make a specific suggestion.) Beat someone up and take their money. Protect someone from such a person. Destroy a Titan. BUILD A TITAN. Evade consequence. Face consequence. BE someone else's consequence. **** someone off . . . no, really, make them furious Or make them happy. Get mad. Lose a ship. Steal a ship. Repair someone's ship. Find someone's ship . . . and run into it at full speed. Crash a market. Get podded in a Clone Grade Alpha. Give all your stuff away and biomass.
that **** takes a LOT of time to do... I think I need a more lightweight game than EVE, like that new Oculus Rift project CCP did would suit me much better!


Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
The possibilities are only as limited as you are. The limiting factor is yourself (and not just for EVE). If you cannot imagine something to do, that is because you lack imagination, or maybe you've just done it all. The one hard piece of advice I can give is to play zoomed in as much as possible. It still gives me a sense of vertigo every time I approach an object at a high rate of speed.
I don't have an imagination problem, but even the things I've already done in the last 10 years of EVE, I wouldn't to anymore today, too much time...

And meta gaming, I dislike, I'd rather do something RL then.

And spying and scamming, I'm not into, I dislike interacting with people and then using them or mistreating them. Not my style, neither in-game nor out. I like expressions of honor, trust and valor. If that's not to be had, I go elsewhere, do something else.