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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New player pvp question, Incursus.. (Fit help needed New)

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Zim x
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-10 07:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zim x
just started up today and did a fair bit of reading before I got the game.

so what frigate is the best, like will kill everything else and never lose... just kidding.

I want to jump into the incursus for solo pvp as many a site's recommended it or said it is a very solid solo pvp frigate choice (plus its great for overcompensating), all ships have the pro's and con's but after looking at everything else it seems this one's a good choice for me.

I was thinking of going duel rep, a few sites said it was solid but this is what sold me

From The Altruist (found the link in another post right here, research, research, research : ), with the fit itself seems fairly straight forward there are quite a few fits around the place i e battleclinic etc but most just vary meta levels)

"A dual rep fit is more fragile in terms of buffer, but tanks like a beast - typically something in the region of 160dps before overheating or upwards of 200dps with one regular rep and one AAR. Unlike the MASB Merlin the dual rep Incursus is cap boosted, meaning it can sustain this rate of repair over a much longer period - so long as it has cap charges in its cargohold, the cap booster can continue to feed its reps with all the cap they require. This level of resilience combined with such a good damage output makes the dual rep Incursus hands down the most powerful brawling frigate available, however its lack of a Web is a weakness which can be exploited."


It was not the fact he said its the most powerful brawling frigate, it may be, firm believer in its not the size of the stick but who's wielding it, but I the love the tanking while still doing decent dps part, seems cool.

but after looking through these forums many say its crap.

Thank you Zim x

Edit: Silly me forgot to add I plan to do faction warfare in this puppy, sticking to novice plexes (think that's the one for frigs only) and if there is a chance for a fight outside of a plex so be it. Also plan to join a corp to get the most out of the game but still want to solo as I love too in all games.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-07-10 08:04:05 UTC
It's a good fit, and it's fun to fly, but as with all setup it has it's counters.

You can have some really good fights against other close range frigates, and you will die a slow and painful death against fast ranged frigates like interceptors.

If you are looking for frigate frights, then join factional warfare (or rvb), it's the best place to get some good 1v1 fights in t1 frigates. Once you have tried flying and fighting different types of frigates, you will know why some people love and other hate different types of ship and fits.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-07-10 08:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ovv Topik
+1 for doing your homework. You've covered a lot of the theory very well.

The cursus is an awesome solo frig. The dual rep is nicknamed 'Unbreakable'!

But as the above poster noted, every fit has it's counter. For you this is the fast kiters.

Particularly, the Kestrel, Breacher, Slicer and most commonly the Condor.

Try and find another fit you can use against those.

And learn to 'slingshot' in case you get caught off guard by one.

Fly it like you stole it mate!

Have fun, and welcome to New Eden!

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Zim x
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-07-10 08:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zim x
dexington wrote:
It's a good fit, and it's fun to fly, but as with all setup it has it's counters.

You can have some really good fights against other close range frigates, and you will die a slow and painful death against fast ranged frigates like interceptors.

If you are looking for frigate frights, then join factional warfare (or rvb), it's the best place to get some good 1v1 fights in t1 frigates. Once you have tried flying and fighting different types of frigates, you will know why some people love and other hate different types of ship and fits.


yea with the kiters I know its not going to be fun especially while learning. but your second point is basically saying its a good fit but the negative comments are due to people hating it's style? like atm the fotm I read seems to be the missile condor with its range ill get pwned, not saying its op just saying it seems to pop up a lot, or so I have read same goes for the slicer builds I have seen range + speed = me dead.

Edit: Ovv Topik we must have posted at the same time lol, good info thanks very much, yea I heard about the slingshot move, must get around to actually learning how to do it.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-10 09:17:14 UTC
Zim x wrote:
but your second point is basically saying its a good fit but the negative comments are due to people hating it's style?


This is a MMO, which basically means some people gets religious about what character to pick, or in this case spaceship. People tend to point all the good or bad things about the ships/fits they hate or love, and most of the time it's not a fair judgement, and often it's based on personal preference and/or lack of experience.

People often pick one ship type they are comfortable flying and and say it's the best type, which is why you should not believe everything you read. There are players who give fair judgement and good advise on fit and ships, but the majority don't.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Zim x
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-07-10 09:26:00 UTC
dexington wrote:
Zim x wrote:
but your second point is basically saying its a good fit but the negative comments are due to people hating it's style?


This is a MMO, which basically means some people gets religious about what character to pick, or in this case spaceship. People tend to point all the good or bad things about the ships/fits they hate or love, and most of the time it's not a fair judgement, and often it's based on personal preference and/or lack of experience.

People often pick one ship type they are comfortable flying and and say it's the best type, which is why you should not believe everything you read. There are players who give fair judgement and good advise on fit and ships, but the majority don't.


Yea I totally get that, wish I had the link, the passion in which some people posted there "hate" towards the Incursus, If I see a kiter I have already worked out what I plan to do, and that's run like a screaming girl. its a tactic that has served me well in my past gaming experiences.
ISD IonCharge
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2013-07-10 11:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD IonCharge
If you are looking to start pvp'ing in frigates, I would recommend giving this tutorial/blogpost a read: http://www.thewholefrigate.com/2010/05/on-tactics-frigate.html (unofficial site)
It does a reasonable job of explaining how actively maneuvering your ship can make a huge difference in a fight, and this is something you must be aware of to do well in this sort of pvp.
The ship fittings were before the major "tiericide" ship redesign/rebalancing came into effect, so may not reflect what you'd put on the ships today; however the section on flight mechanics is still very relevant.

ISD IonCharge

Executive, ISD:STAR
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-07-10 11:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ovv Topik
Zim x wrote:


Yea I totally get that, wish I had the link, the passion in which some people posted there "hate" towards the Incursus, If I see a kiter I have already worked out what I plan to do, and that's run like a screaming girl. its a tactic that has served me well in my past gaming experiences.


Two mistakes here my friend.

1. Never underestimate the tenacity and 'testicular fortitude' of female PvPers: 'Hell hath no fury like a woman ganked!'

2. Take the fights. At first you're going to lose anyway! The cursus is the perfect choice to start off, in that a frig 1v1 is over very quickly, and at least it has the tank to last long enough for you to get a feel for whats going on.

And give it your best shot. In any brawler you want to sit right on the plex warp in, not on the button which is 10km up, with your guns and scram pre-overheated and the AB ticking over.

As soon as a kiter lands on top of you, double click them in the overview which will start you're approach.

You can't lock them until they drop fully out of warp, so keep pressing lock until you hear the cycle start, then you can activate your guns and mods even before you get the lock.

This is your best chance of catching them before they get to range.

Obviously you need a scram not point to kill their MWD.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Zim x
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-10 12:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zim x
sorry for the big post its mostly fits (only 2) just to compare and get feedback.

so I have ran into some contradictions about the fit to use for my double rep beast, and would love some help as while I am learning as much about the game as possible this is beyond what I know, while there are indeed plenty of different x2 rep fits most of the ones I found where some what dated (6 months to a year) this is the first one I found that was extremely recent and it talks about a balance that changes who you fit the double rep incursus.

the most common build I have come across on sites is pretty much this one

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/60859-Incursus-Dual-repper.html

[Incursus, Dual repper] posted in 2012

Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

1MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Warp Scrambler II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x1

but I found some posts at the bottom of the thread forgot too read lower, say this particular fit has been nerfed/balanced (how ever you want to word it) in the last few weeks maybe longer. the one who created this build replied saying yes indeed it did get nerfed but is still viable with this fit.

[Incursus, Dual Rep] POSTED 2 march 2013 at the bottom of the comment's
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

what was the nerf/balance if there indeed was one and why the change (fit). just trying to understand or if the bottom one is not satisfactory what would you guys suggest?

also just one quick question to tag on when I look at battle clinic for specific fits for a ship say incursus, there is a tab with all the fits and then one that says killboard loadout is this a good indication of what people are using?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#10 - 2013-07-10 13:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
You're far better off figuring out what makes a good fit and deciding for yourself what you want to fly. For one, a substantial number of 'popular' battleclinic fits are ****. More importantly, if you just copy a fit you found online and don't actually examine or tweak it, you probably don't really know how to use it properly.


My two cents - I happen to think dual-rep incursus fits are ****. It's imminently obvious to your opponent that you're dual-rep fit. Since you lack a web, most frigates are going to be able to just burn away from you and either kite you to death or warp away. For most practical purposes you're better off with a single-rep ancillary armor rep fit. However, I know enough good players who like them that I can't really recommend against them too heavily.
Zim x
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-07-10 13:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zim x
Kahega Amielden wrote:
You're far better off figuring out what makes a good fit and deciding for yourself what you want to fly. For one, a substantial number of 'popular' battleclinic fits are ****. More importantly, if you just copy a fit you found online and don't actually examine or tweak it, you probably don't really know how to use it properly.


My two cents - I happen to think dual-rep incursus fits are ****. It's imminently obvious to your opponent that you're dual-rep fit. Since you lack a web, most frigates are going to be able to just burn away from you and either kite you to death or warp away. For most practical purposes you're better off with a single-rep ancillary armor rep fit. However, I know enough good players who like them that I can't really recommend against them too heavily.



I know the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II gives better resists over Adaptive Nano Plating II, but not sure on the change instead of 2 Small Armor Repairer's, 1 with 1 Small Ancillary Armor Repairer. I understand how to there play style works just wondering what are the changes and how did they impact the ship. the only thing i dug up was a fix that change the description of the incursus armor repair bonus from 10% to the correct amount 7.5.

And i understand the fact i need to understand how fittings 100% work but at this early stage surly i could be forgiven for such short comings. but i appreciate the information and thank you.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-07-10 14:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
And i understand the fact i need to understand how fittings 100% work but at this early stage surly i could be forgiven for such short comings. but i appreciate the information and thank you.


Naturally; I posted it because there are people who go years without ever actually figuring out what it is they're really doing.
Quote:

I know the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II gives better resists over Adaptive Nano Plating II, but not sure on the change instead of 2 Small Armor Repairer's, 1 with 1 Small Ancillary Armor Repairer. I understand how to there play style works just wondering what are the changes and how did they impact the ship. the only thing i dug up was a fix that change the description of the incursus armor repair bonus from 10% to the correct amount 7.5.


The changes are too numerous to recount briefly. You need to be very careful with old ship guides nowadays because in the past year so there have been very large, sweeping rebalances. For one thing, the fact that the Incursus is worth anything at all is actually relatively new - it used to be that the Rifter was the only remotely useful t1 frigate.

The changes I think you're referring to are the armor tanking changes. 200mm and 800mm armor plates got a mass reduction (so they have less of an effect on ship agility), a new skill (Armor Honeycombing) was added, and rigs that boost active armor repairers no longer reduce your speed (instead they increase PG requirements of reps).

However, the one most applicable to you in your Incursus is that they introduced an ancillary armor repairer. Basically, "regular" armor repairers and shield boosters are usually pretty bad in PVP - in addition to the capacitor cost, they're mostly balanced for taking small amounts of damage over a long period (PVE). In short, high-damage PVP encounters, armor repairing just didn't give you enough hitpoints before you died to be worth using. The Incursus, thanks to its gigantic 10%/level rep bonus, was a bit of an exception.

Ancillary armor repairers use nanite repair paste as ammo. While this ammo lasts, an ancillary armor repairer is vastly superior to a regular armor repairer. However, after the ammo depletes, you either continue to run it at ridiculously reduced effectiveness (worse than a regular armor repairer) or spend 60 seconds reloading it. Because AARs provide very high regeneration (even if it doesn't last forever), they're great for PVP. Because the Incursus
10%/level bonus was a bit overpowered with the new AARs, the bonus was reduced to 7.5%/level. Ancillary shield boosters work on a similar mechanic with cap boosters as ammo.

You can only fit one ancillary armor repairer per ship, however, so you can't do a dual-AAR fit. The practical effect of this is that an incursus with a single AAR can rep very, very hard without having to use two reps (and thus, because of the cap cost, give up its third midslot to a cap booster).

But again, dual-rep fits are still used by some people.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2013-07-10 16:29:32 UTC

Here is the Pro's and Con's of the dual rep incursus:


Pro:
Good DPS for a t1 frigate (135-160)
Excellent Tank: 140-190 dps repped.
Cap boosted making it difficult to neut.

Cons:
Poor Engagement Control: AB+Scram means most serious brawlers (AB+scram+web) will have total range control. This means they can run away if they don't like how the fight is going. Furthermore, with an AB+Scram, it's hard to catch kiters, meaning you need to trick them into having the fight within scram range.

Poor Engagement Range: Your engagement range is 1.5-4km's with antimatter and 2-7.5 km's with null. At the outer limits of this, your dps is halved at best, and rapidly falls off. So against lasers and rocket users, which easily do solid dps beyond those ranges, they can "kite" you within scram range, and often run away if their tank breaks before yours.

In the end, while your ship is setup for a nice long drawn out battle, you generally can't hold your target all that well. The fights you win, are either because you have backup coming soon, or your fighting another close up brawler that underestimates your tanking ability and gets in your face.

Final Note: While you can fit Neutron blasters, I HIGHLY recommend you stick to Ions!!! The incursus does NOT have a tracking bonus, and the base tracking on Neutrons is mediocre at best. This leaves you with another hole, as a fast ab frigate can orbit you under 1 km's and actually speed tank your neutrons blasters which won't track their target! I used to kill wolves (before they were buffed to get a tracking bonus) with a taranis because people put on the largest autocannons they could, which couldn't track my fast orbiting inty!
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-07-10 17:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Zim x wrote:
just started up today and did a fair bit of reading before I got the game.

so what frigate is the best, like will kill everything else and never lose... just kidding.

I want to jump into the incursus for solo pvp as many a site's recommended it or said it is a very solid solo pvp frigate choice (plus its great for overcompensating), all ships have the pro's and con's but after looking at everything else it seems this one's a good choice for me.

I was thinking of going duel rep, a few sites said it was solid but this is what sold me

Dual rep incursus is great for new players, but more important is understanding of transversals and how to spiral into an opponents r_ape zone and get under his guns. More so, what guns you can't do that on....

I wrote a thing, you should read it.

Would you like to know more?
Zim x
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-07-11 01:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zim x
decided to go with a single rep. has not got the tank of the double but more importantly has pretty good speed, range control, range is decent around 3.2+4.4km, can't see any glaring weaknesses.

fit

[Incursus, 1x rep]

200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

Hobgoblin II x1

pretty standard, not sure about the small armor repairer, a Ancillary Armour Repairer pumps out more but only for a limited time them poof, so not sure if a ancillary is bettter because most fights should end before then or if small armor repairer is overall the safer bet. this is a all stats V ill swap out meta's for lower sp until i can fit this.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#16 - 2013-07-11 09:34:11 UTC
You would be better off with a kiting type of PVP frigate at this moment. Simple reason is you don't have the skills to tank what they throw at you nor do you have the damage to finish them quickly in a fast brawler, you don't have the base speed as well for that matter cause you lack all navigation skills.. Add to that, that you don't have the cap skills to run a dual rep and it quickly turns into a laughable dream gone sour... Using a brawler now would lead to a lot of cheap explosions. Keeping at range and kiting would offer somewhat of a chance...
You better start thinking if you gonna be a PVPer, what I just told you is obvious and very logical. EVE has little tolerance for stupidity. Without wits you are destined to fail. Do not be a hypocrite telling himself stories, your opponents won't be either nor will they take pity on you.

Make this the day you start using your gray matter in games and shelve your bad idea for now..

Radius

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.