Missions & Complexes

Hello EVE community. I made this thread to find the best answer for 2 questions. I can't find myself in a position to tell my friend the best way to go in case of picking correct ships for misssions.

Some background: My friend really, really likes Amarr technology, background and look of ships. He is now farming missions lvl 3 with a Harbringer (http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/41652-Harbinger-mission-3-runner.html build) but it sucks vs Drake. He is now blaming CCP for making races unbalanced (Caldari and Minmatar overpower) and after seeing this build: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/21813-Golem-that-actually-has-TP-039-s.html he is fully into Caldari. But it's not a good thing to do, especially, that he did alot of traning for Amarr technology, he will have to train for Caldari from the scratch.

Questions:

1.) lvl 3 missions - should he upgrade that Harbringer http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/41652-Harbinger-mission-3-runner.html and just try to go with it until he hits standing for missions lvl 4 or should he pick another race and stick with it?


2.) lvl 4 missions - forum is full of "Machariel, Nightmare, maybe Tengu" posts, and nobody says anything about Golems lately or the rest of Marauders. I did some research, and to be honest, differences between these ships:
Machariel, Nightmare, Vindicator, Marauders, Strategic Cruisers

are not that big so it all depends on personal preferences on what and how to fly. Am I wrong?

I happen to be cross trained Amarr/Caldari (what can I say, I have a Khanid sympathy). I prefer pure Amarr for missions.

To be really honest, I don't understand where all the 'do the Nightmare, the Tengu, the blah blah blah blah' hoopla comes from.

I started doing L4s in a Drake - so friggin' slowly. I made myself able to do them in an Apocalypse (T2 tanked, Meta4 guns) and I did them faster and easier. I got better BS skills (BS 4), I got better gunnery skills (still using Meta4 guns though). I do them solo easily and relatively quickly.

Maybe the end goal is to fly the pimped out ships for L4 missions. But tell your friend, it's doable just as well in T1 ships. And I find the greatest fun in L4 missions is not from what ship I can or cannot fly... but from having a friend or two fleeted up with me and working with them to accomplish the mission.

Teamwork... yeah I know it's not uber leet and not optimal isk/per hour and all that - but it's fun.

Barring W-space, Mach is the most powerful subcap PVE ship in the game, bested only by the nightmare against sansha. So there really isn't a comparable choice. The vargur and paladin are good, but not as good as the pirate ships. Vindi and Kronos are comparatively useless outside incursions. There isn't a dedicated missile pirate ship, and the golem is again outdone by the mach and NM.

Navy ships are yet another tier down from marauders, and apart from the Tengu, T3's can't apply enough damage to be really effective.

In wormhole space, the Tengu is king.

I advice every new Amarr pilot starting on lvl 4 missions to look at the apocalypse first, it is a relative easy ship to fit and to fly and so much cheaper than any pirate faction battleship
Learn how to fly learn how lvl4 missions work but most of all learn what skills are needed
Amarr ships tend to skillintensive , learn those engineering skills and those mechanical skills to lvl 5 or atleast 4 without neglecting your gunnery skills and those drone skills
losing one because of inexperience isn't so bad as losing a very expensive factionship

Later he might want to use the abaddon, that monster needs really good engineering skills and T2 energy turrets, A paladin will be the next logical step
Note Amarr ships excell against their natural enemies , sansha and bloodraiders, they still do well against mercanries and serpentis , but will be much slower completing missions against guristas and angels , so cross training is never a bad idea

one more note a nightmare is not a Amarr ship it is sansha , I kill sanshas, I don't fly them ( i know it is a great ship , just doesn't fit with me and my views on eve lore)

I've been using an Apoc for lvl 4's for a while now, with all the advantages mentioned earlier in the thread it's pretty cool. I know it doesn't have the bells and whistles of the Nightmare, it does it's job. Over time I have replaced most of my T2 gear with the better Amarr Navy modules and the bonus even if small is worth it for the extra protection and firepower.

in a weeks time i can fly equally both as well.. IE bs skilsl to 5

only thing that stops me flying a mach is... the amount of ammo it spits out.

i did angel extrava in one and used up over 5m isk in ammo, in my nightmare i use up some 4 crystals every 75+ missions.

and I honestly prefer the nm.

Vargur rocks for L4's, imho.

4x T2 800mm autocannons with 100% damage bonus - uses half the ammo vs machariel. Add 3x T2 gyro's and a tracking mod or two, and the dps is excellent, pops even frigates within a range of 12-80km.

Also has big cargo and 3x hi-slots for salvage gear and a 100% tractor range boost, so nice for salvage-as-you-go.

Fit a cap-stable shield booster, and you won't look back.

^This illustrates the grid problem with Paladin mentioned earlier. Notice the 3 tachs...

Reading all of these posts, i fail to see any practical advantage a Navy Apoc has over a regular Apoc. Also, a Tachyon Abaddon is pretty awesome too.

Tach Abaddon means either fitting fewer than a full rack of tachs or using grid mods. Tachs take a lot of grid, and also sucks up cap. Abaddon's regen isn't the best. Tachs are usually fit on 4 turret boats that has 100% special dmg bonus - effective 8 turrets for less fitting and cap. This category include Paladin, NM, and Bhaalgorn. Bhaalgorn has immense grid and cap, NM has decent grid and cap, but Paladin has poor cap and bad grid. Among the 3, Paladin has problems fitting even 4 Tachs, and is regarded as subpar to NM.

Navy Apoc is a med performing carebearing boat. Practical advantage of Navy Apoc is having 8 instead of 7 lows of the regular Apoc. This means a 4th hs, which, despite stacking penalty, is a significant increase in dps. Apoc gets no dmg bonus, so the extra hs is welcomed. Range bonus helps when when you can't use Scorch. The range bonus costs no extra cap. Fitting is relatively forgiving, plus good cap regen. Navy Apoc is low SP friendly.

Navy Geddon is a high performing carebearing boat. Practical advantage of Navy Geddon is a 4th mid for tc/cap, plus 175m3 drone bay instead of the 125m3 of regular Geddon. This allows fielding a full flight of sentries plus a flight of med/light drones. Regular Geddon cannot practically field 5 sentries, as it leaves no room for smaller drones to kill frig rats. Fully skilled Navy Geddon pushes 1300+ applied dps, and are known to beat NM in clearing times. This is significant, as NM is considered the gold standard in carebearing. It requires t2 pulse and t2 sentry to do so, however. Plus fitting and cap is less forgiving, especially since it has 25% rop (37.5% dps) bonus - faster firing guns means more cap consumption. Not low SP friendly.