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[Odyssey 1.1] Skill group name changes

First post First post First post
Author
Fennore
Underworld Innovations
Sindication
#401 - 2013-07-09 03:31:05 UTC
Spaceship Piloting? NoAttention That's just poor grammar to begin with. You are commanding your ship. You are not just a pilot, you are commanding your ship and all it's systems and crew.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#402 - 2013-07-09 04:26:35 UTC
Spaceship Make-Active Enablertizor And Primary Bonus Magnificationing!
Wyndeigo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#403 - 2013-07-09 04:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyndeigo
I can see why some of the skills could use some cleaning up but;

1. There are far more important items that have been overlooked for far too long.

2. You are just creating a lot of redundant work for the third party developers that do not have entire teams to help and also do it mostly for free.

3. How about lets get ship tiericide, rebalancing or whatever you want to call it, get it done.

4. DO POS's, "nuff said"

5. long standing bug fixes

6. pve sucks, again, nuff said.

and the list goes on.

p.s. just noticed this also; go to the EvE gate main page and check out the Headline News column, you still have articles from Inferno patches, what the ... really Inferno!!!
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#404 - 2013-07-09 04:41:04 UTC
We dont pilot our sapceships, we CAMMAND them, aside from that most of my complaints can be written off as me being used to the old names and not liking change, kinda like back when ammo/meta names were all made unimaginative, er i mean, "streamlined"
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#405 - 2013-07-09 06:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
So this is what CCP waste time on? Renaming skills and skill sets?

It's certainly not a waste of time. It is going to be a lot easier for newbs to identify skills they are looking for.

Remove standings and insurance.

Luscius Uta
#406 - 2013-07-09 07:56:40 UTC
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: Every skill group, except Planet Management and Subsystems, has a skill of the same name in it which is generally the most important skill in the group and has a 1x training multiplier. If you want to introduce new skill groups, I would like them to keep with this "tradition" (which can be done without introduction of new skills, I am assured).

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#407 - 2013-07-09 10:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: NeoShocker
Yeah, I agree with the skill group to undergo some naming changes.

Armor, ok.

Electronic System, I disagree. Should separate between electronic and Electronic warfare. Electronic should be all CPU reducing related skills and cloaking device for example.

Engineering. Still same ol'. But all PG reducing skills shold be here.. I'm wondering about the Energy transfer tho'. I think those go under Electronic warfare. I'm unsure about nanite related skills. Don't think it fits into "engineering."

Missiles, ok.

Neural Enhancement. Ok

Production, ok.

Resource Processsing, perfect.

Ship Modification, ok, but as long its RIGS. T3 Subs should be on its own group categorry rather in Ship Modification.

Scanning, eh, ok I suppose. But I think those should go under electronics.

Science, ok

Shield, ok, makes more sense than engineering. I suggest renaming tactical shield manipulation to something else.

Spaceship Piloting, eh. Spaceship Command is a better name.

Targeting. Hm... I don't know. I think its unecessary. Should go into Electronic system. BUT all the sensor compensation should be in Electronic Warfare group.
Juniper Weatherwax
Industrial Waste Removal Services
#408 - 2013-07-09 11:37:31 UTC
Tony S7ark wrote:
marVLs wrote:
Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better



How about looking at this a little differently, by obtaining licences to gain access rights to larger bigger or faster ships, like getting a motorcycle licence or a licence to drive a semi.

Frigate Licence
Provisional Cruiser licence
Caldari Freighter licence

So in effect, your 'logbook' would aquire licences to fly/pilot ships as your learning and abilities progressed.

Spaceship Command could be read as 'Ship Licences' and each section, Frigate - Dreadnaught would show non trained, partially trained, fully trained and with the holding of, say, cruiser licences for each faction, a new licence simply 'All Cruisers'.

'Space Ship Command' sounds like an authoritian resource, some thing you rmight report to to buy extended rights to stay in High Sec while you have a rating of -10.

'Space Ship Licences' tells you what it is, a portfolio of licencing achievements.

Benjamin Artoriana
Porpoises with a Purpose
#409 - 2013-07-09 11:52:21 UTC
Debir Achen wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
I think it would be really helpful to add sub-groups of skills.

Spaceship Piloting (SC, ACS, Cap ship)
> Amarr Spaceship Command (F/D/C/BC/BS/I/SC/...)
> Caldari Spaceship Command (F/D/C/BC/BS/I/SC/...)
> Gallente Spaceship Command (F/D/C/BC/BS/I/SC/...)
> Minmatar Spaceship Command (F/D/C/BC/BS/I/SC/...)
> Tech 2 Spaceship Command (AS, Inty, Dic, HIC, HAC, etc)

Definitely feature creep, but it would make things a lot easier to manage.
Yep!

Let's re-imagine the whole skill tree as a two-level tree (rather than the current 1-level tree). As far as possible, the first skill in each sub-tree is the "named" skill, which is fundamental to all other skills in the tree. Note that 'named' skills might be nested: Electronic Warfare is a base skill for a tree of skills, but is itself a subtree from Electronics


Ship Systems:
- Electronics: Electronics, (all the sensor & targeting related skills)
- Electronic Warfare: Electronic Warfare, ...
- Propulsion Jamming: Propulsion Jamming, ...

- Engineering: Engineering, ...
- Energy Systems Operation: Energy Systems Operation, Energy Management, ...
- Shield Operation: Shield Operation, Shield Management, ...

- Mechanics: Mechanics, Hull Upgrades, (armor skills)
- Repair Systems: Repair Systems, ...
- Jury Rigging: ...

- Subsystems: ...

Weapon Systems:
- Gunnery:
- Missile Launcher Operation:
- Drones:
- Weapon Upgrades: (includes seige modules)

Social Skills:
- Corp Management:
- Social:
- Leadership:
- Trade:

Spaceship Command:
- Spaceship Command: Spaceship Command, Advanced Spaceship Command, Capital Ships, all the T2 skills
- Navigation: (seems to fit here as well as anywhere)
- Amarr / Caldar / Gallente / Minmatar Spaceship Command

Industry:
- Industry: Industry, production skills
- Mining: Mining, ...
- Refining: Refining, ...
- PI: ...
- Spaceship Construction:

Science:
- Science: Science
- Research: Research, Lab Operation, ..., all the R&D skills (maybe split the specific R&D and the 'base' R&D skills)
- Astrometrics: Astrometrics, ...
- Exploration: Archaelogy, Hacking, ...
- Personal Enhancement: Cybernetics, Informorph Psych, (boosters)
- Thermodynamics: Thermodynamics, (Nanite Repair skills)


Stuff that I'm not quite sure where it fits:
- Anchoring, Salvaging (despite the similarity, I assert this is *not* a mining skill, since it's generally used by non-miners), cynos + jump portals, Starbase Defense Management


I can agree with this in part from the standpoint of moving skills into a two-tier system of base/core areas (since CCP are fond of tiers) with T2/3 modifiers (skills like HAC/HIC/etc) rather than the current single tier (and poorly named and some of the suggested name changes suck donkey balls) system.

A lot of good ideas floating about in this thread.

Something, something, don't be an idiot. Blah, blah, I love EVE and goats.

Liastr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#410 - 2013-07-09 13:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Liastr
Multiple Targeting sucks. Target Management is much better. Target Acquisition to me sounds more like a targeting speed skill.

Spaceship Piloting is indeed 'naff'. Spaceship Command is much better. Really, there's no reason to change this.

Also +1 on standardizing the skill names for ORE ships. ORE industrial just for covering the Noctis is a bit dumb, unless you're planning on adding or moving more ORE ships to that group.

Not sure about the PI skills. PI is fairly unique in EVE industry, so it seems odd to spread it's skills out among the other industrial skills. I would vote to keep the Planet Management group.

I also like the idea of making the skill tree more of a tree. Right now it's fairly flat.

-All ship skills. Sub folders for race specific skills please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The total Spaceship Command list is 67 items long! break it down a bit, spare a thought for my mouse wheel!
-T2 ship skills (Assault ships, Interdictors, Heavy Interdictors, Recon, etc) would make sense to be in a different or sub-folder called something like Spaceship Command Specialization. Ties in well with the naming of the different weapon Specialization skills.
-Weapon support skills (Missile Projection, Rapid Firing, Controlled Bursts, Motion Prediction, etc) being in a sub-folder would really help separate them from the core requirement skills from the support skills. You could call the sub folder Missile Proficiency or Turret Proficiency
-Likewise with fitting skills. Separating out the "efficiency" skills from the "required for" skills would help clarify what's important to train first. ie; in Navigation there is Afterburner and High Speed Maneuvering and Jump Drive Operation in a sub-folder I'd put Acceleration Control and Fuel Conservation and maybe Jump Fuel Conservation. Call the folder Navigation Efficiencyor something.

I like the idea of sub folders because it would help with navigating the often long list of skills to find the one you're looking for. I'm glad this is being looked at, but just moving them around between single-level folders doesn't really help. We're still looking at big blobs of skills, slightly less vaguely grouped together without any real indication of how they interact. Using sub folders would go a long way to showing how skills relate to each other, not to mention cutting down on scrolling through large skill lists to find that one skill (and that's if you can even remember what it's called!!)
Markku Laaksonen
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#411 - 2013-07-09 13:53:59 UTC
This is completely unnecessary.

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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#412 - 2013-07-09 15:00:32 UTC
Reorganizing the skills in specific skill related groups has long been needed. +1

Re/naming of the groups and making even more categories of them. -1.

Prefer the current category names as they make sense. Can add a hover over the categories to inform a player, for example, that Electronics skills offer A/B/C benefits (or add an additional box below the title explaining what skills in that category does).

The current category names have a ship system feel to them, where renaming them to specific skills and what they do, cheapens how a ship is looked as. In industry to the military, the names for equipment are related to the plant or ship itself. Sub systems (a sub-category) are named after specific systems or functions.

In the military command is the term for ship/station leadership (and only like in the Air Force/Army they're considered pilots, naval forces call them aviators. Generic command is recognized all over, not just branch related like "pilot").

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

YuuKnow
The Scope
#413 - 2013-07-09 15:50:29 UTC
The current system is adequate really. Its not that complicated that anyone at CCP should be spending work time working on meaningless stuff like this.

yk
spaco butilia
Mind Your Business
#414 - 2013-07-09 17:04:03 UTC
imho, there's no reason for continue to use the name hull upgrades for a skill that improve the armor hp amount and "mechanics" for another one that improves the hull hp amount....
Ronny Hugo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2013-07-09 19:11:40 UTC
I'm swayed by reason and must change my view to "just keep it as it is, its too small of an improvement that it should take valuable time, best not over-think it and take a step back and look for something that is more worth it". If skills should be changed at all the change will be bigger than just changing names, the tree-shape of the skills would be removed and general uniformity of people's skills and ships would be removed, (fex all ships have pretty much the same amount of shield hp, armor hp and hull hp, same with all the other attributes, and all the same skills and modules and module attributes). This uniformity does make for an even playing-field but its like playing chess where white is playing white and make PVE the same all the time and PVP quite un-involved and detached. but more about that if I ever post the complete set of skill-improvements I've put together.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#416 - 2013-07-10 02:41:56 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: Every skill group, except Planet Management and Subsystems, has a skill of the same name in it which is generally the most important skill in the group and has a 1x training multiplier. If you want to introduce new skill groups, I would like them to keep with this "tradition" (which can be done without introduction of new skills, I am assured).


Actually they are doing this specifically to break that tradition.

Many times people assume that training industry means any skill under the industry category when they go to do their first manufacture tutorial.

That overlapping name bit is terrible.

The Drake is a Lie

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#417 - 2013-07-10 02:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Liastr wrote:
Multiple Targeting sucks. Target Management is much better. Target Acquisition to me sounds more like a targeting speed skill.

Spaceship Piloting is indeed 'naff'. Spaceship Command is much better. Really, there's no reason to change this.

Also +1 on standardizing the skill names for ORE ships. ORE industrial just for covering the Noctis is a bit dumb, unless you're planning on adding or moving more ORE ships to that group.

Not sure about the PI skills. PI is fairly unique in EVE industry, so it seems odd to spread it's skills out among the other industrial skills. I would vote to keep the Planet Management group.

I also like the idea of making the skill tree more of a tree. Right now it's fairly flat.

-All ship skills. Sub folders for race specific skills please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The total Spaceship Command list is 67 items long! break it down a bit, spare a thought for my mouse wheel!
-T2 ship skills (Assault ships, Interdictors, Heavy Interdictors, Recon, etc) would make sense to be in a different or sub-folder called something like Spaceship Command Specialization. Ties in well with the naming of the different weapon Specialization skills.
-Weapon support skills (Missile Projection, Rapid Firing, Controlled Bursts, Motion Prediction, etc) being in a sub-folder would really help separate them from the core requirement skills from the support skills. You could call the sub folder Missile Proficiency or Turret Proficiency
-Likewise with fitting skills. Separating out the "efficiency" skills from the "required for" skills would help clarify what's important to train first. ie; in Navigation there is Afterburner and High Speed Maneuvering and Jump Drive Operation in a sub-folder I'd put Acceleration Control and Fuel Conservation and maybe Jump Fuel Conservation. Call the folder Navigation Efficiencyor something.

I like the idea of sub folders because it would help with navigating the often long list of skills to find the one you're looking for. I'm glad this is being looked at, but just moving them around between single-level folders doesn't really help. We're still looking at big blobs of skills, slightly less vaguely grouped together without any real indication of how they interact. Using sub folders would go a long way to showing how skills relate to each other, not to mention cutting down on scrolling through large skill lists to find that one skill (and that's if you can even remember what it's called!!)


4 racial categories and Spaceship command, Adv Spaceship Command and Capital Ships can go into Navigation

The Drake is a Lie

Eckyy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#418 - 2013-07-10 04:09:46 UTC
My suggestions:

New category "Electronics Superiority" for electronic warfare.




Advanced Drone Interfacing -> Capital Drone Interfacing or Drone Control Unit Operation

Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing -> Ranged/Long Range Drone Control (or some other variant), sounds too much like Drone Interfacing but has nothing to do with damage.

Sentry Drone Interfacing -> Sentry Drone Operation - it's a 5% bonus so it falls under "operation" and not "interfacing"



Electronics -> Leave it as it is

Frequency Modulation -> open ti ideas but this one could use a name change - Predictive Jamming?

Multitasking -> Advanced Targeting

Electronic Warfare -> Target(ing) Disruption - Why does the ECM skill have so many other skills tied to it? It might be wise to separate it from electronic warfare, and give that skill another bonus.

Signal Dispersion -> Advanced Target Disruption

Signal Suppression -> Advanced Sensor Suppression ?

Signature Focusing -> Advanced Signature Amplification ?



xxx Shield Compensation - xxx Shield Hardening, or Anti-xxxx Ward Hardening

Energy Management -> Capacitor Management

Energy Pulse Weapons -> Smartbomb Operation - move to a "weapons" section

Energy Systems Operation -> Capacitor Systems Operation

Shield Compensation -> Efficient Shield Boosting ?

Tactical Shield Manipulation - there are all kinds of things wrong with the skill, it needs a complete rework



Controlled Bursts -> Efficient/Frugal Firing ?

Trajectory Analysis -> Predictive Firing ?



Siege Warfare -> Shield(ed) Warfare



xxx Armor Compensation -> xxx Armor Hardening



Guided Missile Precision -> Missile Precision

Missile Bombardment -> Missile Projection

Missile Projection -> Missile Navigation ?



Nanite Control -> "Booster" (Drug) Operation



Spaceship Command - great name, leave it alone
Phoenix Cervantez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#419 - 2013-07-10 06:44:04 UTC
Like this a lot.... clarity!
Photon Ceray
Palmyra Universal Enterprise
#420 - 2013-07-10 10:13:05 UTC
Also, some skills have vague names that don't reflect what they do.
For example:

Metallurgy > rename to something like > Production efficiency research
Research> 5% bonus to manufacturing time, this should be renamed to > production efficiency!
Production efficiency> Material Efficiency
Mechanics > Structure Integrity
Hull Upgrades> Armor Integrity

It doesn't have to be precisely what I wrote, and there are a ton other skills that I didn't mention here, but you get the idea.