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hi-sec mining
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Vrenth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-07-09 23:59:30 UTC
Broe wrote:


As isk can buy PLEX and PLEX have a $ value it is nothing but a nasty form of shakedown or moneyracket or blackmail etc.

Does this not pose a problem?






You are assuming that once you turn your money into a PLEX for 19.99, it is still worth money. It is not. You cannot ever turn that PLEX (or the isk) back into money. It has no real monetary value any longer, you have payed CCP for a service and expended it instantly.

To explain it with a scientific analogy:

Lets say you take that same 20$ bill and burn it: This is a chemical change, there is no way to turn it back into money.

Turning it into a PLEX has the same effect on you. CCP gets the money, you can never get it back.

There it is folks, giving money to CCP is equivalent to setting fire to your money.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#162 - 2013-07-10 00:02:08 UTC
Quote:
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing is if nothing happened. LOL!


For about two weeks. The game would be shut down after that.

Quote:
And you know what is the best thing about it - it really pisses you guys off that null and low sec aren't really needed to play EVE at all. :)


No, I find mild amusement in the staggering level of the self inflicted ignorance you are perpetrating. Believing that you can somehow turn this into a single player game, and tunnel vision on without paying heed to the ever shifting world around you, is sheer lunacy.

Quote:
Still waiting for someone to name me one requirement from null and low sec that is a must have to play EVE - just one item.


You've been given numerous examples, and you have discounted them offhandedly. You will never be given an example you do not reject, because that is the game you are playing. It's pretty transparent.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#163 - 2013-07-10 00:05:26 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Sorry doesn't affect me.
Yes it does, because it's what gives everything you do value and meaning, and it's where all your stuff either comes from or ends up.

Quote:
I can get everything I need from running missions.
Not in the amounts you need and not without competing with other players, at which point, guess what? You're being affected by what everyone else does — including those in low and null.

Quote:
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE.
…aside from the many things listed and which you have never been able to address, much less dispute or disprove. Meanwhile, everything you've mentioned so far is affected by low and null through the means of economy, tools, and competition.
Khira Kitamatsu
#164 - 2013-07-10 00:06:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing is if nothing happened. LOL!


For about two weeks. The game would be shut down after that.

Quote:
And you know what is the best thing about it - it really pisses you guys off that null and low sec aren't really needed to play EVE at all. :)


No, I find mild amusement in the staggering level of the self inflicted ignorance you are perpetrating. Believing that you can somehow turn this into a single player game, and tunnel vision on without paying heed to the ever shifting world around you, is sheer lunacy.

Quote:
Still waiting for someone to name me one requirement from null and low sec that is a must have to play EVE - just one item.


You've been given numerous examples, and you have discounted them offhandedly. You will never be given an example you do not reject, because that is the game you are playing. It's pretty transparent.



Game would not be shut down...you are delusional.

Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :)

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#165 - 2013-07-10 00:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Hey, can we get some lowsec guys to track this Khira person down and "effect" them from lowsec, preferably in the middle of a mission?

Pretty sure they'd have to concede the point after that.

Quote:
Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :)


So, what you did was move the goalposts after your "I can't be effected by nullsec" statements were broken. So, to make sure you didn't lose the argument, you changed it to "I don't need any items from nullsec".

Once again, you are very transparent.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Khira Kitamatsu
#166 - 2013-07-10 00:11:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Sorry doesn't affect me.
Yes it does, because it's what gives everything you do value and meaning, and it's where all your stuff either comes from or ends up.

I put the value on the game. I determine what is fun and has value. Not you.

Quote:
I can get everything I need from running missions.
Not in the amounts you need and not without competing with other players, at which point, guess what? You're being affected by what everyone else does — including those in low and null.


Bullshit - the game generates missions...not players, not null or low sec. The game can generate hundreds of them...and guess what I am not competing for any of them - at all. None.



Quote:
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE.
…aside from the many things listed and which you have never been able to address, much less dispute or disprove. Meanwhile, everything you've mentioned so far is affected by low and null through the means of economy, tools, and competition.


Sorry...name me one item. Last chance.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#167 - 2013-07-10 00:13:03 UTC
I do hope that you can somehow self-justify all of this.

Because the rest of us? We think you're pathetic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Khira Kitamatsu
#168 - 2013-07-10 00:13:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hey, can we get some lowsec guys to track this Khira person down and "effect" them from lowsec, preferably in the middle of a mission?

Pretty sure they'd have to concede the point after that.

Quote:
Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec...I know you can't...but you seem to think there is so name it. Until then, like Tippia...you are playing a circle-jerk game of trolling. You know I am right and refuse to acknowledge it. I said I would concede the argument if you could name me one required item from null and low sec to play EVE. I'll wait patiently for an answer. :)


So, what you did was move the goalposts after your "I can't be effected by nullsec" statements were broken. So, to make sure you didn't lose the argument, you changed it to "I don't need any items from nullsec".

Once again, you are very transparent.


I didn't move anything...still waiting on what null sec does to my game that affects me in game. Because I need nothing from null or low sec to play EVE - at all. Really pisses you guys off that it is true - huh? LOL!

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-07-10 00:13:25 UTC
khira i don't know if you're trying to save face or something here but i feel embarassed on your behalf just reading it
Khira Kitamatsu
#170 - 2013-07-10 00:14:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I do hope that you can somehow self-justify all of this.

Because the rest of us? We think you're pathetic.


::shrugs:: I don't think much of you either since you still haven't named anything from null sec and low sec that affects me playing EVE.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#171 - 2013-07-10 00:14:58 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Game would not be shut down.]/quote]Of course it would, for the reasons explained to you that you have failed to address, dispute or disprove.

Quote:
Still waiting for you to name me one item that is required to play EVE that comes from null or low sec.
No, you're still avoiding the many things that have been named, all of which you have failed to address, dispute or disprove.

Quote:
You know I am right
The only right you are is not in the head. You have said nothing that is in any way related to EVE; you have offered nothing to support your argument; you have provided no explanation for why you think you are disconnected from the game; you have utterly failed at every step to address, dispute, or disprove even a single fact given to you.

You know we are right and you know you can't answer our questions because they would prove you so wrong you'd have to be outlawed to prevent it accidentally infecting innocent people.

Quote:
I put the value on the game.
Incorrect. The market does. The one generated by the common pool of players, including the ones from low and null.

[quote]Bullshit
Then prove it.
Tell us what it is you do and how you believe it to be completely disconnected from the market, from the economy, from production, and from destruction.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#172 - 2013-07-10 00:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
I didn't move anything.
…apart from the goal posts. Once it was made abundantly clear that you could be affected, you tried to move it to “impacted”. Once impact was shown, you tried to move it to “not needing”. Once need was shown, you tried to move it to “game can survive without”. Once survival was shown to be at risk, you're now stuck at “umad?”.

If you had tried “I don't use…” and just stuck with it, you might have stood a chance (of course, it would undoubtedly been a lie, but that's a different matter), but instead, you just keep changing the qualifications in hopes that you can be right about at least one detail… which you won't.

Quote:
still waiting on what null sec does to my game that affects me in game.
No. “Waiting” implies that it has yet to happen, when in reality, it happened many pages ago. What you're actually doing is avoiding the many things that have been named, all of which you have failed to address, dispute or disprove.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-07-10 00:36:47 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Sorry...name me one item. Last chance.


All officer mods and high-end deadspace mods? Also, all T2 production requires moon mineral reaction products - you cannot mine moons in highsec nor can you run reactions there. Unless you only fly T1 ships with t1/named/faction/c-type mods, you're always going to use stuff that cannot be made without stuff from lowsec/0.0.

Also, what do you buy with your LP? Nullsec is the main consumer of a large portion of LP store items, because ships are actually lost there.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2013-07-10 00:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
There is nothing that is required, has an affect, or necessary from low or null sec to play EVE. If null and low sec were removed right now and no longer existed - guess what - I can sign in and keep playing as if nothing happened. LOL!


You could still sign in, yes. You could still keep playing, yes. We have acknowledged these things.

"As if nothing happened," is a big fat "No," however, because the ISK value of ships and goods on the high sec market is tied inextricably to the wars and destruction that goes on in null and low sec. Without them in the game, the value of these items would absolutely crash overnight so you would not be able to continue playing "as if nothing happened." Ore you mine and rewards from missions would be worth less because the items created from that ore would be worth far less because the demand for those items would go way down because there would be far fewer items being removed from the game.

Shortly, CCP would have to rebalance mission rewards because they would not be in line with the market. And so on and so forth.

This is elementary. It's very simple to understand and absolutely impossible to argue against. You have yet to attempt to do so, which demonstrates an unwillingness or inability (hint: it's both!) to do so.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#175 - 2013-07-10 02:36:15 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I love mad themeparker tears.


Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills.

Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh? Pirate

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2013-07-10 02:45:16 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
"As if nothing happened," is a big fat "No," however, because the ISK value of ships and goods on the high sec market is tied inextricably to the wars and destruction that goes on in null and low sec.


If you mission the ISK made is independent of null and low-sec. The ISK comes from bounties and money saved in not buying items. Be it from mining to salvaging, and it's all independent of null and low-sec. The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money not even tied to activities in null or low-sec.

No trade wars. No moon goo tie ups. No ore tomfoolery.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2013-07-10 02:47:28 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I love mad themeparker tears.


Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills.

Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh? Pirate


how long did it take?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2013-07-10 02:52:09 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I love mad themeparker tears.


Let's see, did a L4 and got about 34mil on salvage, and around 24mil in ISK from all the dead pirates. Not bad for an extremely casual run in a Drake and not even level 5 skills.

Bet that burns PvPers buns, huh? Pirate


how long did it take?


Not as long as the TEST and Goon fight. Bear

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#179 - 2013-07-10 02:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money
…that has suddenly become worthless, useless, and pretty much completely devoid of purpose. Oh wait, that rather makes it matter, doesn't it?

Just because the ISK is made “independently of low/null” (i.e. in a ship you got from your career agents, armed only with looted equipment and loaded with found ammo) doesn't mean that low and null has no impact on the activity. They had a lot to do with giving the activity value and making it possible to begin with…
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2013-07-10 03:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Tippia wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The market could crash tomorrow, it wouldn't matter as it's money
…that has suddenly become worthless, useless, and pretty much completely devoid of purpose. Oh wait, that rather makes it matter, doesn't it?


To you.

I'm not dependent on the market, moon goo or the other stuff. Saw how the game is played (like in EQII), and like in WoW, became self-sufficient. Only bills in the game are for things, again, not tied to any value in null or low-sec.

To you it's about making ISK. To me it's about saving ISK. You got to sell to make the ISK to buy stuff. I just need to save. Lol

Big difference.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell