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SWG NGE similarities
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2011-09-08 16:49:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:



8 years for one dingy motel room... Roll


This time last year it was 7 years and nothing but a demo vidLol
Cyaxares II
Vectigalia Inc
#42 - 2011-09-08 17:04:20 UTC
main similarity between NGE and Incarna is the notion that <awesome new feature> will make the game attractive to a vastly larger demographic and that protests by bittervets can be safely ignored in the face of this huge potential for growth.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-09-08 17:11:18 UTC
Cyaxares II wrote:
main similarity between NGE and Incarna is the notion that <awesome new feature> will make the game attractive to a vastly larger demographic and that protests by bittervets can be safely ignored in the face of this huge potential for growth.



Google>>>Star Wars Galaxy>>Endgame.

EVE Online is a niche game. It cannot be turned into WoW. Why not?
Sony Entertainment tried that with Star Wars Galaxies. Game servers go offline December 2011. Awesome result.

Don't let them fly safe!
Cyaxares II
Vectigalia Inc
#44 - 2011-09-08 17:15:40 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Cyaxares II wrote:
main similarity between NGE and Incarna is the notion that <awesome new feature> will make the game attractive to a vastly larger demographic and that protests by bittervets can be safely ignored in the face of this huge potential for growth.



Google>>>Star Wars Galaxy>>Endgame.

EVE Online is a niche game. It cannot be turned into WoW. Why not?
Sony Entertainment tried that with Star Wars Galaxies. Game servers go offline December 2011. Awesome result.

not entirely sure what your point is but I think we agree(?)
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-09-08 17:15:59 UTC
CCP Fail.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#46 - 2011-09-08 17:20:17 UTC
Crunchmeister wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Stuff....


Bravo. Give this man a cookie. He's wrapped it up quite nicely and realistically. That's exactly what's happening. He just expressed it more eloquently than I could.


baltec1 wrote:
CSM have any power at all? Seriously? Good joke!


The CSM is a "feelgood' PR tool to make players think they actually have a voice. Nothing more. However, I believe that this is backfiring on them now that Mittens is the chair. His recent actions to bring to light CCPs incompetence is sheer brilliance IMO. He's a smart guy, a lawyer (if I remember correctly), and it's not easy to fool him. If anyone can do it, it's him. Regardless how I or anyone else may feel about Goons or Mittens in game, he truly does have the best intentions of Eve and its community at heart.

I see this going one of 2 ways. Either CCP will pay attention now that they're getting heavy negative press along with a shrinking subscription base and will do what's best for Eve, or they'll permanently dissolve the CSM with the "It's more hassle than it's worth" attitude and continue down the same path which will leave Eve to suffer the same fate as SWG.


I was all into your post till you got to the part where you agree with mittens that he should have influence on the macro management of eve. Even if hes the best lawyer on the face of the planet thats totally non sequitur, & appeal to authority logical fallacy.

Bad press is good press, its all what you do with it.

Guns and Roses; deplorable behavior led to more record sales, but also the self destruction of the band.
Eminem; deplorable behavior led to more record sales, but dude managed to pull his life out of the shitter and did not self destruct his career.

I admit CCP could eventually self destruct on a downward spiral. But it is a highly unlikely scenario. More likely it will be a dip in subs followed by an insurgence when WiS is working, and then a resurgence when new ships/FiS are the primary focus.

Whats pissing people off is that 5-600 people work at CCP, but most don't work on FiS. Most were not hired for it in the first place.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-09-08 17:27:28 UTC
Cyaxares II wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
Cyaxares II wrote:
main similarity between NGE and Incarna is the notion that <awesome new feature> will make the game attractive to a vastly larger demographic and that protests by bittervets can be safely ignored in the face of this huge potential for growth.



Google>>>Star Wars Galaxy>>Endgame.

EVE Online is a niche game. It cannot be turned into WoW. Why not?
Sony Entertainment tried that with Star Wars Galaxies. Game servers go offline December 2011. Awesome result.

not entirely sure what your point is but I think we agree(?)


I think we agree. :-)

Don't let them fly safe!
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2011-09-08 17:31:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:



8 years for one dingy motel room... Roll


This time last year it was 7 years and nothing but a demo vidLol


TBH I think I preferred the demo.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-09-08 17:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Crunchmeister
Cipher Jones wrote:
I was all into your post till you got to the part where you agree with mittens that he should have influence on the macro management of eve. Even if hes the best lawyer on the face of the planet thats totally non sequitur, & appeal to authority logical fallacy.

My comment on Mittens is that if there's any CSM that's likely to get CCP to listen to what the current players want, it's him. Past CSMs, despite their best efforts, have failed to do so. Some completed their terms and didn't run for CSM again because they felt disillusioned. Others resigned their positions out of frustration. Either way, they didn't get through to CCP.

Mittens is very different from all our previous CSMs. Because of his personality, calculated planning, resourcefulness and ability to rally support for his causes, he's got a better chance than anyone else to get things done. And it's not about HIM having influence. It's about him getting CCP to acutally pay attention to US - players with legitimate concerns that have been repeatedly voiced on this forum, and by previous CSMs and duly ignored or dismissed by CCP as being the voice of the "vocal minority".

And on the note of the "vocal minority" - I always wonder if CCP look at raw active subs to determine that, or whether they take into consideration that most serious Eve players have 2+ active accounts. I'd be curious to find out what the average number of accounts people have compared to the total active subs and find out just how small this "minority" that CCP claims is.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#50 - 2011-09-08 17:41:16 UTC
Crunchmeister wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
I was all into your post till you got to the part where you agree with mittens that he should have influence on the macro management of eve. Even if hes the best lawyer on the face of the planet thats totally non sequitur, & appeal to authority logical fallacy.

My comment on Mittens is that if there's any CSM that's likely to get CCP to listen to what the current players want, it's him. Past CSMs, despite their best efforts, have failed to do so. Some completed their terms and didn't run for CSM again because they felt disillusioned. Others resigned their positions out of frustration. Either way, they didn't get through to CCP.

Mittens is very different from all our previous CSMs. Because of his personality, calculated planning, resourcefulness and ability to rally support for his causes, he's got a better chance than anyone else to get things done. And it's not about HIM having influence. It's about him getting CCP to acutally pay attention to US - players with legitimate concerns that have been repeatedly voiced on this forum, and by previous CSMs and duly ignored or dismissed by CCP as being the voice of the "vocal minority".

And on the note of the "vocal minority" - I always wonder if CCP look at raw active subs to determine that, or whether they take into consideration that most serious Eve players have 2+ active accounts. I'd be curious to find out what the average number of accounts people have compared to the total active subs and find out just how small this "minority" that CCP claims is.


I agree with everything up to but not including macromanagement. He directly states he wishes to influence it.

I would LOVE to see current sub numbers, including alts that left and alts that remain.

I know that arguing over player made charts based off logins is largely futile.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-09-08 17:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Sinai
Cipher Jones wrote:
I admit CCP could eventually self destruct on a downward spiral. But it is a highly unlikely scenario. More likely it will be a dip in subs followed by an insurgence when WiS is working, and then a resurgence when new ships/FiS are the primary focus.


By the way it looks now and where it goes similarities with NGE are so big (NeX is only the beginning, lets remember Ishukone Scorpion which CCP wanted to put into NeX and then when met with fierce protest they claimed it will require standard scorpion for the paint but they not really sure how to code it in NeX blablabla right before the Incarna and how nicely it was hidden when all Hell broke loose) and by the time WiS completes, knowing CCP time frames for anything there will be a stockpile of bugs and other game screw ups so no vets or any other hard core players even remotely interested in FiS to be present in game since there will be nearly no one to fly.

Once more relate you to NGE where they had one and at times two developers fixing "show stopping" bugs while all the team was working on NGE release. While keep telling the community that they work on it hard and fix things. And the main target of NGE was to change the player base. They succeeded in getting rid of before NGE player base. Result? They lost their game and in December will enter history of MMO as most amazing, groundbreaking failure with title that is nearly impossible to fail. It's epic.

Just read the OP and especially linked information with the links in it. It's all there. And similarities are strikingly horrifying.

Edit: ending wording.

Don't let them fly safe!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2011-09-08 17:48:02 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
I admit CCP could eventually self destruct on a downward spiral. But it is a highly unlikely scenario. More likely it will be a dip in subs followed by an insurgence when WiS is working, and then a resurgence when new ships/FiS are the primary focus.


By the way it looks now and where it goes similarities with NGE are so big (NeX is only the beginning, lets remember Ishukone Scorpion which CCP wanted to put into NeX and then when met with fierce protest they claimed it will require standard scorpion for the paint but they not really sure how to code it in NeX blablabla right before the Incarna and how nicely it was hidden when all Hell broke loose) and by the time WiS completes, knowing CCP time frames for anything there will be a stockpile of bugs and other game screw ups so no vets or any other hard core players even remotely interested in FiS to be present in game since there will be nearly no one to fly.

Once more relate you to NGE where they had one and at times two developers fixing "show stopping" bugs while all the team was working on NGE release. While keep telling the community that they work on it hard and fix things. And the main target of NGE was to change the player base. They succeeded in getting rid of before NGE player base. Result? They lost their game and in December will enter history of MMO as most amazing, groundbreaking failure with title that is nearly impossible to fail. It's epic.

Just read the OP and especially linked information with the links in it. It's all there. And similarities are horrifyingly striking.



CCP stopped, listened to the complaints about the gold plated scorp and didnt go ahead, SOE didnt listen and pushed on. Its a very big difference.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#53 - 2011-09-08 17:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Alex Sinai wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
I admit CCP could eventually self destruct on a downward spiral. But it is a highly unlikely scenario. More likely it will be a dip in subs followed by an insurgence when WiS is working, and then a resurgence when new ships/FiS are the primary focus.


By the way it looks now and where it goes similarities with NGE are so big (NeX is only the beginning, lets remember Ishukone Scorpion which CCP wanted to put into NeX and then when met with fierce protest they claimed it will require standard scorpion for the paint but they not really sure how to code it in NeX blablabla right before the Incarna and how nicely it was hidden when all Hell broke loose) and by the time WiS completes, knowing CCP time frames for anything there will be a stockpile of bugs and other game screw ups so no vets or any other hard core players even remotely interested in FiS to be present in game since there will be nearly no one to fly.

Once more relate you to NGE where they had one and at times two developers fixing "show stopping" bugs while all the team was working on NGE release. While keep telling the community that they work on it hard and fix things. And the main target of NGE was to change the player base. They succeeded in getting rid of before NGE player base. Result? They lost their game and in December will enter history of MMO as most amazing, groundbreaking failure with title that is nearly impossible to fail. It's epic.

Just read the OP and especially linked information with the links in it. It's all there. And similarities are horrifyingly striking.


That's one of the hugest beefs I have with the "forum community". They exaggerate the bugs to an unacceptable level. So many times I see a bug, CCP fixes it, and people are bitching about it 2 weeks later. I go into game, the patch fixes the bug(s) for me, and everyone I encounter in game. Then I come to the forums and people say it's "gamebreaking".

Secondly, I have only played 3 MMO's. The other 2 were vastly buggier than Eve, yet vastly more popular, and made wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more money.

And yet their communities said the same thing as this one.

I did not play SWG. I was given an SWG account and never once logged on. Not because of NGE, but because SWG sucked.

Quote:
CCP stopped, listened to the complaints about the gold plated scorp and didnt go ahead, SOE didnt listen and pushed on. Its a very big difference.


Every time I "like" a goon, God kills a kitten.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-09-08 17:56:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CCP stopped, listened to the complaints about the gold plated scorp and didnt go ahead, SOE didnt listen and pushed on. Its a very big difference.


Stopped? No. NeX is there. As well as Ishukone Scorpion which will be activated with one of the patches when CCP decides the time has come. They did not stop. Incarna released and read the devblogs to see where it goes.Check the patches after Incarna release. Pay attention to words said by CCP and then check the actions.
SoE released NGE. And desperately tried to market out to target player base (which was not the before NGE player base) but failed and then desperately tried to return before NGE player base and also failed.

The only difference is that Incarna release was partially complete. NGE release was fully complete. Incarna does not cater to pre-Incarna player base. It simply have nothing to offer to that base. And we are called "vocal minority". No similarities, whatsoever.

Don't let them fly safe!
Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-09-08 18:03:45 UTC
To the OP

I lived through the NGE and Incarnna is nothing like what happened.

Imagine if you will servers full of people forums full all telling SOE not to release the NGE.
over 2500 people played on Farstar the day before the NGE.
The very next day after the patch there was 500.

A few months latter servers merged due to lack of population and still people left.


The NGE killed SWG within a day its just taken Sony this long to realise it.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#56 - 2011-09-08 18:05:53 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
That's one of the hugest beefs I have with the "forum community". They exaggerate the bugs to an unacceptable level. So many times I see a bug, CCP fixes it, and people are bitching about it 2 weeks later. I go into game, the patch fixes the bug(s) for me, and everyone I encounter in game. Then I come to the forums and people say it's "gamebreaking".

Secondly, I have only played 3 MMO's. The other 2 were vastly buggier than Eve, yet vastly more popular, and made wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more money.

And yet their communities said the same thing as this one.

I did not play SWG. I was given an SWG account and never once logged on. Not because of NGE, but because SWG sucked.


I have to agree with you on these points. Some of the bugs reported in forums I don't even notice in game or consider them more of a small inconvenience but definitely nowhere close to "showstoppers".

I dont play other MMOs but I do play AAA titles and quality of these 50-80$ titles are far beyond quality of EVE Online for which I pay 180$ a year. So it's a bit of a surprise to see 180$ payment per year and now with a cash shop too having far less quality then 80$ single payment AAA title. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

Don't let them fly safe!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2011-09-08 18:06:11 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP stopped, listened to the complaints about the gold plated scorp and didnt go ahead, SOE didnt listen and pushed on. Its a very big difference.


Stopped? No. NeX is there. As well as Ishukone Scorpion which will be activated with one of the patches when CCP decides the time has come. They did not stop. .



Didnt say anything about NEX, just that they stopped the scorp. Which the did.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-09-08 18:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Sinai
Kiran wrote:
To the OP

I lived through the NGE and Incarnna is nothing like what happened.

Imagine if you will servers full of people forums full all telling SOE not to release the NGE.
over 2500 people played on Farstar the day before the NGE.
The very next day after the patch there was 500.

A few months latter servers merged due to lack of population and still people left.


The NGE killed SWG within a day its just taken Sony this long to realise it.



After Incarna release population on server dropped then fluctuated back and forth and finally now on flatline not raise and not fall. Accounts continue to expire and people continue to unsub. EVE have unified universe without servers split so we can't see the events exactly like they happened on NGE release date. The Forums (old ones) was full of people telling CCP to roll back or to remove most of these Incarna "features". The forums got "new shiny look". With promises to archive old forums and keep them available.

Similar?


Edit: Lets not forget that Incarna is nearly 10% complete. Tbh I was looking forward to it too. I liked the trailer much more then actual thing.

I referred primarily to CCP handling of entire Incarna affair and to possible dangers of Incarna becoming NGE since what we see is far from complete version of Incarna and it already sparked fierce protests and unsubs. NGE was complete when released. Actions of both companies after release look strikingly similar.

And in the link in OP not only information about but also link to NGE TL admitting that what they tried to do is to change player base and cater to more WoW style players. These similarities are horrifying.

Don't let them fly safe!
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