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Nightmare Lows for Level 4's

Author
Hank Hakaarii
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-09 17:09:23 UTC
Nightmare Lows - Which and why for optimal damage / tracking relationship using Imperial Navy Tach beams and T1 crystals? I've not yet priced faction crystals, but they are an option if price / bonus relationship makes it viable:

3 T2 heat sinks and 2 T2 TE's

or

4 T2 heat sinks and 1 T2 TE?

I have:

• One tracking computer with a tracking speed script in mid.
• Motion Prediction 4
• Both Battleships to 4

Thanks for the input.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-07-09 17:38:59 UTC
With only four turrets, faction is totally worth it.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-09 17:43:54 UTC
3 faction heatsinks 1 t2 heatsink 1 TE
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-09 17:48:08 UTC
With Motion Prediction 4 and both BS skills at 4 I'd say train Motion Prediction and both BS skills to 5 as soon as possible.

Seriously,
3x Heat Sink + 2 TEs.



Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-09 17:57:51 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
With Motion Prediction 4 and both BS skills at 4 I'd say train Motion Prediction and both BS skills to 5 as soon as possible.

Seriously,
3x Heat Sink + 2 TEs.





he already has a TC in mid, 2 TE and a TC and the stacking penalty for that 2nd TE makes it close to worthless.
Hank Hakaarii
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-07-09 19:06:52 UTC
Would it be better to replace the TC with another hardner or boost amplifier, and have the 3/2 in the lows?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-09 19:09:51 UTC
Hank Hakaarii wrote:
Would it be better to replace the TC with another hardner or boost amplifier, and have the 3/2 in the lows?


TEs got nerfed so you're not doing anything by changing things around like that.

You're reducing your range to increase your tank but range already gives you some tank so it's pointless. I would keep the TC because sometimes you might want to change scripts to shoot something closer.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-09 19:57:39 UTC
Personally, I'd go for four heat sinks and a tracking enhancer. I also use three tracking computers with two running scripts (one each) and one unscripted. I find that four slots for tank (whether it's an XLSB with either three hardeners or two hardeners and an AB it doesn't matter) is sufficient for most every mission I do.
Hank Hakaarii
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-09 20:17:48 UTC
Originally my tank was an invuln and 2 specific hardners, a pith C Large booster and a CN Amplifier. I wasn't impressed with the shield recharge capabilities on a relatively easy mission, so I replaced the Pith C with a Pith X, and replaced the CN Amplifier with a Large ASB. I have not yet tried this in a mission to know how it will work though. I believe I went from about 300 HP/S recharge to somewhere between 600 / 700 HP/S recharge for as long as the capacitor / charges last. What are your thoughts on this?

The remaining mids are the TC and a large cap booster. I've got the cap booster as I haven't done missions in years, and I wanted that security blanket of extra capacitor on my new capacitor hungry ship that I've not flown before until I can shake off the rust. If I'm able to learn to manage my cap so that I don't need the cap booster, I'm debating between running with a TC and Sensor Booster (I can currently strike out to 150 with radio, but can't target beyond 100), or replacing the TC with one of those jump drive things (another new thing I've not used) and run with the jump drive and sensor booster.

Do scramming mission frigates disable the jump drive module as well?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-07-10 10:25:19 UTC
i've been flying with four heat sinks and one (officer) TE for a while now. on the other hand, i always use two TCs, so ymmv.

I should buy an Ishtar.

AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#11 - 2013-07-10 10:25:40 UTC
My fit is:

Tachs in high (obviously)

Med:
2 Shield hardeners T2
2 TE (range scripted), T2
1 SEBO (scan res), T2
1 Large shield booster, T2
MWD, T1

Lows:
4x Heatsink, T2
1x Damage control, T2

DC is there in case **** hits the fan and I get scramed while under heavy fire.
Sebo is there to let u pop pesky little frigs on approach before they get a chance to orbit you.
Booster is there moreless for show, rarely used more then 3-4 cycles.
MWD is there to bridge the gap between ac gates in missions...

Its a pure (1000) DPS / distance tanker. Never had to warp out of the zone.
I use it for any em/therm damage rats.

For Angels I have a Mach, and tengu for kinetic rats... and can do any extravaganza within 1 tick or less...

Have fun, take care.

I.
Kozlack
KM Industries
#12 - 2013-07-10 11:01:45 UTC
[Nightmare, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I



Train for T2 guns....

On vaction from hawk-eyeing local..... in empire

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-07-10 12:21:58 UTC
Kozlack wrote:
[Nightmare, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

oh god....

I should buy an Ishtar.

Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-07-10 12:27:54 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Kozlack wrote:
[Nightmare, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

oh god....


If you could just let me know where you run missions from that would be great ;)
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-07-10 12:30:00 UTC
Yeah... I think I'd rather fly:
[Nightmare, Kindasorta]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

I've looked at T2 (large) beams and outside of long-range/MJD builds on non-apocalypse ships I don't really see that there's a lot of advantage to them over faction beams. They do approximately 95% of the damage for 76% of the capacitor consumed. The primary advantage of T2 beams over faction is the usage of T2 crystals, and while I've outlined a good use for Aurora crystals so far as I'm concerned Gleam crystals rather suck and are easily replaced by T2 pulse lasers with Conflagration crystals. You'd get comparable, though slightly shorter, range and superior tracking, damage, and capacitor consumption.
Kozlack
KM Industries
#16 - 2013-07-10 12:46:28 UTC
Shereza wrote:
I've looked at T2 (large) beams and outside of long-range/MJD builds on non-apocalypse ships I don't really see that there's a lot of advantage to them over faction beams. They do approximately 95% of the damage for 76% of the capacitor consumed. The primary advantage of T2 beams over faction is the usage of T2 crystals, and while I've outlined a good use for Aurora crystals so far as I'm concerned Gleam crystals rather suck and are easily replaced by T2 pulse lasers with Conflagration crystals. You'd get comparable, though slightly shorter, range and superior tracking, damage, and capacitor consumption.



Uhh no, the reason to use T2 is that the T2 skill makes guns do more damage... l2p. Amarr BS 4/5 means you dont need TE's/TC's, besides that fact that anything buring right at you has super low transversal. TBH tho the fit I lnked was way too cap stable because I was too lazy to refit it in EFT with the Gist x MWD and SS Sensor boost. AND if you're doing L4's that are heavy TD'n you then you need to just get a raven with some faction launchers (Because missile spec 5 DOES NOT make T2 lauchers ROF faster then faction) and pewpew the stuff.


On vaction from hawk-eyeing local..... in empire

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#17 - 2013-07-10 12:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Nightmare, Level4 wrote:

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Booster II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5


This works quite well once your gunnery skills are up to snuff. If your gunnery skills are bad, you might need more tank. As a general rule, that booster and cap booster aren't needed on 9/10 missions, but I keep it there as a safety net. You can also swap the 4th heat sink for T2 and lose very little damage. Faction TE isn't really worth it, the faction TCs are... but they're pricey. I just stick to T2 on my Nightmare.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#18 - 2013-07-10 12:50:31 UTC
I don't really do missions a lot but I've used this and it works for most missions http://puu.sh/3zqt4.png

You can fit a prop for missions that have a lot of gates or fit tachs for sniping missions
Hulasikaly Wada
DO.IT
I.N.D.E.P.E.N.D.E.N.T
#19 - 2013-07-10 13:14:43 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Nightmare, Level4 wrote:

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Booster II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5


This works quite well once your gunnery skills are up to snuff. If your gunnery skills are bad, you might need more tank. As a general rule, that booster and cap booster aren't needed on 9/10 missions, but I keep it there as a safety net. You can also swap the 4th heat sink for T2 and lose very little damage. Faction TE isn't really worth it, the faction TCs are... but they're pricey. I just stick to T2 on my Nightmare.


Yeah, most important upgrade here is to go with faction lens ( last something like 8 hours NON-stop shooting )
Best rigs IMO are 1 turrets optimal T2 ones , + cap capacity and the a CCC
Guns can stay to faction quite well without use too much isk ( non in a PULSE fit -->> need to can use scorc )
A little better shield booster can make it tank 20% more without bleeding 1/2 billion isk , and already someone said, 3rd and 4th heat sinks can be t2 without lose to much dps

Hula
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-07-10 14:04:11 UTC
Kozlack wrote:
Uhh no, the reason to use T2 is that the T2 skill makes guns do more damage... l2p.


Covered that. Faction do 95% of the damage at 76% of the capacitor consumption when using T1 and faction crystals. That leaves using T2 damage crystals to "make guns do more damage" which gets trumped by pulse lasers.

Kozlack wrote:
Amarr BS 4/5 means you dont need TE's/TC's, besides that fact that anything buring right at you has super low transversal.


Tracking enhancers and computers do more than boost tracking, they boost optimal range and falloff. I rather like being able to eke out 44km optimal with tachyons. Of course I also like being able to peg frigates at 15km and under and avoiding as much as possible situations such as the one I find my machariel in all too frequently where NPC frigates are able to avoid all but its first round of fire at them until they get in so close not even ACs will hit them and I have to deploy drones.

I'm still puzzled by that one. The frigates come rushing in, orbit one of the ships I have in the mission area, and the entire time my machariel can't even touch them. It can't touch them when they're coming in from 40km out, it can't touch them as they close in, it can't touch them as it burns out to 40km, and I generally have to resort to using drones to off them. All things considered I doubt that enhancing the tracking on my ships, especially on tachyon lasers, is going to help reduce the chances of something like that happening, but at the very least it provides a placebo effect.

Kozlack wrote:
AND if you're doing L4's that are heavy TD'n you then you need to just get a raven with some faction launchers (Because missile spec 5 DOES NOT make T2 lauchers ROF faster then faction) and pewpew the stuff.


Or an armageddon. It would take many players a bit to recover from either fit we posted if they were to build it from scratch and didn't already have comparable modules laying about, and a cheaper alternative to a navy raven is useful.
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