Market Discussions

Might want to check out the early history of an alliance called ISS.

There are many misconceptions about running a business in EVE.

For the most part, people who produce items for sale aren't running a business in the sense most people in RL think about such things. For example, you can't brand the freighter you build. You can't build a better freighter. You can't design the "next generation" of freighters. It's just production for sale. Even then, it isn't company specific. Few people produce items that they only sell through their own "store" (e.g. sell forum thread). Most is just brought to market, which means that the company doesn't have a face or name in the community. It's still a business in the technical sense, just not in the sense that each business is somehow unique.

Most business in EVE is of the production sort. If you read the sell forums it will quickly become apparent that the only "real" businesses (in the sense that they are unique and the products/services they offer are better/worse than their competitiors) are service providers. Those breakdown into mercs, standings related services (both standings grind and corp w/ standings sales), hauling, real estate (WH sales mostly; I have no idea if those are even legit), compression services, third party services (trust for hire), and some production sales, generally of ships/items that are very expensive and thus not usually listed on the market because of taxes/fees, e.g. titan packs. MD regulars will note the lack of mention of financial services. Other than the longstanding third-party services (Chribba and Grendell), I regard all of them as probable scams and avoid them. Many players feel the same way. Almost every financial business I've seen in EVE is gone now. Even those that remain are very different from their original incarnation (e.g. V.V.).

You mentioned Red-Frog specifically. I founded Black Frog, RF's jump freighter service, and I was a long time RF director (now retired). RF is a very different animal from most other businesses in EVE. Specifically because it doesn't generate a profit. All of the contract rewards go to the pilots (and they've recently added an insurance program pilots pay into). Everybody pulls their own weight, even directors. This is a critical element of running a business in EVE. You have to keep in mind that this is a game and people don't play games for the purpose of starting a second job. Many people have started businesses in EVE with the mindset that it's a real world company. They think in terms of the boss getting the biggest piece of the pie, firing/hiring, giving orders, etc. That just doesn't work in a game. No one is afraid to lose their job because their kids will starve.

Players are also innately suspicious of setups in which money goes to the corporation, but line pilots are kept in the dark about what is done with the money. Rightly so. If your CEO isn't open about what he's doing with all the ISK you're helping to make, you can safely assume you're going to get screwed. People often forget to plan for turnover. In a game where the overwhelming number of people quit before finishing a full year, failure to plan for hiring will kill your business. RF has outlasted most of its competitors for two simple reasons: relentless recruiting (we half-assed it for a long time, but Red Frog Rufen showed us how its done) and share the wealth. Several RF competitors simply couldn't adjust to the time demands running an EVE business put on them. Whatever business you start, keep that in mind. If you can't realistically do what must be done in 20 hrs or less per week, you will almost certainly burn out in 6 months or less.

that's my two cents!

Finally someone has put an end to this cruel charade!

@ OP - also eve-search for FBank and DBank. All attempts to create deposit-based banking schemes in eve have been not just failures but failures of such epic proportions that they have gone down in legend. Indeed, one of them failed so spectacularly that it was reported by the BBC and caused two years of bitter recriminations here on MD. The total losses to the investing public through bank failures on MD approaches 2 trillion isk.

The 'banking' successes that Vera so cruelly alluded to when sending you down this path have been non-deposit banks. They simply use either private or public funds which they then lend out for fully collateralised loans. They provide no banking functionality beyond this.

Well aren't you cheery and optimistic. I prefer to do all my EVE "banking" at gun point. No collateral or dishonest scams. Just good ol' stick-ups in space. I do wish you all the luck in the world though OP. Welcome to EVE

Absolutist statement.. and fundamentally wrong.

Its hard to establish banking in the current game environment, but it would def be useful in regards to the speed of moneyflow.

Its only as "not needed" as I would imagine it was in RL prior to its proper introduction, in its first proper organization by the Templars. The benefit of banking is always about speed of the money flow and fungibility.


As Unifex said EVE is maturing, and eventually advanced financial services and products will be a more vital part of it, till then its spaceship frag fest, and harvesting tears. Let see what Odyssey (the EVE puberty) brings.

A bank requires depositors to build the pile of money it will be loaning out. Depositing ISK isn't necessary in EVE; wallets work just fine. So the only way to get deposits is to offer a percentage on the money. There is no real difference between me depositing 1bill in your bank with a 2% interest rate or establishing a bond/loan/whatever you want to call it, in which I give you a billion at 2% interest. Except that the bank isn't going to be offering collateral to secure the loan I'm making to it. Sorry, the deposit I'm making. In the absence of collateral, third party security, or a new game mechanic that somehow replicates FDIC protections, every deposit would be a gamble. Will he run with the money or not? It's no surprise that the form of banking that currently exists is third-party, collateralized bonds. It's the only form that makes any sense in EVE.

How about some sort of a reversed-auction house?
Not sure how to totally optimize that idea, but would love to help make one and see if it will work.

If you want to start a cool business, start producing drugs.

My co-worker was an accountant irl so he sat up spreadsheets for orders and kept everything recorded. You cannot brand your freighter, but you can brand your drugs. Look at Es and Whizz. They're currently the biggest lowsec drug suppliers purely because of their name and reputation.

Yup. That's the only downside. I wish it be possible to make up your own drugs. It'd be too much work for ccp to do.