Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I am not, I am simply pointing out that your change will leave you with omgwtfbbq tacklers from 100km away with no meaningful drawbacks.

Also your idea will do nothing for other ships other than make a web a mandatory mod to fit if your fighting someone with a web fit, and your reasoning against my idea is flawed.

You said webs should make you vulnerable to webs, that is dumb.

If you don't have a web you will be ******.

1x web reduces your target's velocity to 40%.
2x webs reduces your target's velocity to 19.1% (cause the second web is stacking penalized).
3x webs reduces your target's velocity to 12.6% (cause the third web is stacking penalized).

An AB adds roughly ~165% for a t2 AB (it varies with skills and mods, from +135-195%). Now, the +165% boost from a t2 AB ship, which is then webbed, is now traveling at 1.06 their normal velocity. This is 1.02 for an experimental ab, and 1.18 for a deadspace AB. A second web will then reduce your speed to 50% of original. If you look at these numbers, the AB is superior to a web, which is harder to fit, requires more cap, which also effects your ship rather than an opponents ship. These are almost perfect counters, with the AB being superior for range control.

Your suggestion, with a 70% web (instead of a 60%):
1x web reduces your target's velocity to 30%.
2x webs reduces your target's velocity to 11.7% (cause the second web is stacking penalized).
3x webs reduces your target's velocity to 7% (cause the third web is stacking penalized).

Put that same situation, of a webbed AB ship, and now it is traveling at 0.8 of their normal velocity. This makes the web a superior choice for range control than the AB. And while you can overheat the AB to go 1.05% your normal velocity, this is hardly the range control device it currently is.

So, my question is, why should a web be a superior form of range control than an AB?

IMO, I think the balance is just about perfect at the moment!

Yeah perhaps i should have made the thread title "webs are boring and too simple and predictable"

Flown a serpentis blaster boat with a 90% web, its pretty great you can not only stop things getting away with apply that high dps.

All the other blaster boats are crying in the corner, hiding from anything but a class size above them to get their actual dps numbers close to the paper dps.

I like the idea above about limited the serious stone wall webbing of 90% to a lesser range, if it means that a softer 15k+ web can exist as well as a 10km web thats more than 60%.

I see what you mean about an AB would be better than a web, but inside 10k is that really such a bad thing.

A mwd brawler must close to 10k to web then close a further 5k to do some good dps, all while under fire potentially from their target - the answer then is to either fit two webs or a web and dual prop - which seems a bit unfair since the serpentis ships get a single web thats more than 4x as powerful to use their guns.

seems like something needs a tweak when the answer to doing something properly is using a special and some what rare ship, expensive ship.

No, the opposite is true. Webs are still too powerful!
After the cruiser buff now almost every cruiser can fit two webs which easily reduces the enemy speed by 80%. This is a death trap for every frigate, including Assault Frigates. Not to mention the bonused ships which can reduce your speed by 90% with just one web.

In my opinion webs should be nerved by either the introduction of a web effect reducing module or rig, or by buffing Assault Frigates with an static web effect reducing bonus.

That should work in reverse of what you suggest.


The more mass something has, the harder it should be to make changes in it's movements.

This effect is currently true for propulsion mods and agility. If webs worked that way it would be the same deal, you either would need more power to get the same slowing effect as on a lighter target, or else the web would have less effects on bigger targets.

I suppose that would be one way to make webs more interesting. Alter their cap use by the mass of what they are affecting. Slowing a frigate should be easy for a battleship, while attempting the reverse should make the frigates power core up and die. The cap use could vary for range too, the further away, the more it takes to get the same effect.

I don't really suggest it, the very idea breaks interceptors, but it would make for interesting tactical choices.

1.) Serpentis ships, and Marauders have the 90% webs. It is one of their "specialties", and it helps make those ships very unique. They aren't ubiquitously used, and generally make excellent semi-squishy blingy primaries (compared to other ships in their class).

2.) I solo a lot in frigates, and there is a major choice you have to make between fitting AB, MWD, Scram, Web, Point. Kiting setups are fairly easy, as they are pretty much MWD + Pt, and simply try to stay away (but have no tank). A solid brawl fit though has superior range control when fit with AB+Scram+Web. However, the MWD is great for getting into range of a target (or catching it), as well as for general survive-ability. Lucky for us, frigates don't have the slots to fit everything they want, and so you must make fitting decisions. Frankly, I think the current setup is pretty spot on.

3.) "I see what you mean about an AB would be better than a web, but inside 10k is that really such a bad thing." This would be an ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE thing!!!!!!!! Trust me, I've solo'd Ruptures, Stabbers, Vaga's, Rapiers, Thorax, and more in frigate hulls! I have a great combat record, know what I'm talking about, and am not just brain storming for *****'n'giggles. The primary reason for fitting an AB in PvP is to give yourself range control inside of 10 km's. You remove the superiority of an ab over a web, and you remove one of the major reasons for fitting an AB, leaving the AB a generally useless module (unless oversized).

4.) What is the primary reason you want this change? Is it so you can engage frigates in a Battleship? I really get the impression that your annoyed a frigate can fly under your guns. Remember, there is not supposed to be a "I win" setup. You have to chose when to engage, how to engage, where to engage, and what to engage. Every good setup has a weakness (or several), as well as strengths. Please elaborate why this change is even remotely a desired thing!!!

5.) One of the special abilities of minmatar is enhancing web range. If you create "softer" 15 km webs, you suddenly have EAF's and Recons with pretty ridiculous web ranges. Given the "speed" of the rusty race, this needs to be kept in mind. Furthermore, most kiting ships depend on speed and range to stay alive. You catch one, and it gets destroyed faster than a porcelain dolls in a day care center! Adding a ranged web to all ships really attacks that play style, but I don't particularly see that style as overpowered or in need of nerfing. So why do we think longer ranged webs are a good thing?

The original role of Assault Frigates was to catch light cruisers. Unfortunatelly the recent buff to T1 cruisers completely obsoleted this role. Currently Assault Frigates are just stuck in the middle. If you need speed, you better go with Faction Frigates. If you need dps you better use Destroyers. If you need tank you better take a cruiser, since speed tanking is not possible when double webbed.

Why can't we just make webbing drones useful and buff them like 40-50% increased speed and remove their web's stacking penalties? That would make them actually useful and give a buff to webs like you're wanting. While not really increasing the effect across the board, there's enough ships with drone bays to make use of them if you're hell bent on slowing a target to near zero. Yeah, its giving up damage, but if they buff them correctly then I think it would be a viable trade-off.

You hit the nail perfectly! This is the main issue.
While you can use an AB to mitigate one web. You can't use 2 or more ABs to mitigate several webs. Especially if you run into a blob you get usually tripple or more webbed which basically makes you standing still and therefore die fast.

Maybe we should consider to not allow web stacking which means, only the web with the highest webbing strength will get applied while all other webs should be ignored. (Drones needs to be excluded from this mechanics.)