EVE General Discussion

I have a trade char, too. In my opinion it is a broken mechaic if there are orders in the market that are not covered for at least the minimum amount. I never fall for a scan in the market, so thats no point for me. It's my opinion and I can bring no hard facts why it should be like I say. I know "this is eve" "htfu", etc... I think the point for me is, that the market must not be somekind of a gambling place where you never know if not atleast the minimum amount can be sold to a buy order. Again, for me this is no problem at all, but I can fully understand the disappointment of new players that see a buy order, get the stuff and then the buy order disapears while they try fill it.

Nevermind, it's late. Good night everyone.

How so?

…but that's what make markets fun. And again, from the seller's point of view, it's really no different than if someone else sniped the buy order or the buyer cancelled it for whatever reason. Just because an order was there a second ago doesn't mean it'll be there when you click the “sell” button — that's just inherent to how the market works.

Unless it's from an NPC, market orders are not guaranteed (and even then, the price may have changed by the time you try to make a deal due to what other players have done).

The only think I find broken in all of this is that people have effectively agreed to pay an amount, that they don't actually have.

And the bank doesn't slap them with a huge fee.

I mean come on a bit of reality here, they should be handed huge bills from the bank and have their trading shut down until they pay the bank.

Lets face it, banks know how to make money and if scamming is acceptable in EvE why wouldn't the banks do it.

FTFY

Think of this problem as an advanced form of marketplace PVP. Helps to keep the traders frosty.

Besides traders usually have too much isk anyway. Think of this as the equivalent of the cloak warp trick.

Yes your wallet balance and transactions are not conducted by a third party at all.

A failed order cost is hardly a cost, as you would still pay it on a successful order.

Hit them with a fine. It would make at least for a funny isk sink.

NO. Buy orders are not contracts in EvE. Your layman's legal jargon won't fly here as this is EvE and not some courtroom irl.

It's about time you realize EvE is about pvp in legit scamming also.


...and as CCP Falcon has supported our 'margin trading scam' as NOT AN EXPLOIT as was already clearly pointed out, just because you don't like something in game doesn't mean it's an exploit. I just means you dont' think it's fair and you dont' like it. Does not mean it is an exploit.

According to CCP, it is not an exploit.

Check here for definition of scamming and exploit per CCP

Here is part of it:

Exploits

An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. When this occurs, we implore you to contact your friendly neighbourhood GM as soon as possible so that they can investigate the incident, prevent it from happening to anyone else, and possibly reimburse you for your loss: While in the game, select the "Help" function from your NeoCom. Press the "Petitions" button, then "New Petitions". Select the "exploit" category and press "Ok", then write as detailed a description as you can, including if possible the exact circumstances under which the cheat or exploit can be reproduced, and whether you know of any players who have been taking advantage of it.

My point is: Even though new people may fall for a scam more readily than a more experienced player it still is not considered and exploit by CCP.

There aren't any normal game mechanics that are being bypassed here. The game mechanics are being used to create a scam just as all scamming does basically. There is no bug here to report, or scenario to be reported to the GM's. They already know about it and it is acceptable to CCP, so there is no exploit being used.

There are for sure many items I dont know the regular price. Today I looked at a faction item which has no sell order or contract advertised in Jita local. It only had a single item buy order of 1B. At first I thought it was a margin trading scam like many others. I could have looked at the history to determine if this was the regular price but was too lazy and moved on.

The thing is, the margin trading scam in his current form makes even a decent old char like me to not trust the market. I can imagine what it can do to newbies and I am sure many newbies would even quit EVE after falling for such scam with their hard earned ISK. If I had fallen for such trick back in time when I had my first billion, for sure I would have loose faith in the market and may have quit the game.

In his current form, Margin trading can only benefits scammers and manipulates badly the market. It is a broken mechanic. In real life, such behaviors would result in some sort of punishment. In Eve, the player can exploit it as long as he want.

If CCP still wants to support that broken and useless skill/mechanic, they should make on or more of the next modifications in my opinion:

If a margin trading buy order Minimum trading volume does not even permit any transaction of the amount of ISK currently available in ESCROW, then the order should instantly vanished. That would fix all problems. Easy, logic, you have an order and cant fill the minimum of it, its out. Simple.

Margin trading orders should be identified in some way, telling the other player that the order may not go through. This would avoid also the other bad effects of MT with seasoned players for other legitimate products: those buy order that are used to manipulate the market to raise the legitimate buy order who follows it back.

Implement some consequences if you fail to complete a MT order, there are many ways to do this.

This is my opinion and no I havent fall for a MT scam. (English is my second language)

TM

This is definitely an exploit and I plan on exploiting it.