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how to beat tech 2 guns with tech 1?
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Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-08 15:53:50 UTC
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2 - 2013-07-08 15:55:50 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.



The best gun in the world is useless to someone who you just poked in the eyes.

So perhaps you should consider EWAR, or not exchanging direct gunfire (such as drones, smart bombs, etc).


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-08 15:56:29 UTC
Use meta 4 tech 1 guns with faction ammo. Make sure you are keeping range properly and dont get messed up with transversal velocity. Make your enemy fight on your terms. For instance, if you are using blasters, you need to be in punching distance from your target, get them webbed and keep transversal to a minimum. Other than that it comes down to rigs, drugs and relevant skills.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#4 - 2013-07-08 15:59:48 UTC
Bring more guns.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#5 - 2013-07-08 16:01:20 UTC
I think this will always be situational. If they are in a bigger gun slower ship corkscrew to close the gap...also duel fit AB MWD will help as AB does not increase sig radius like MWD. Orbit them close and they should not be able to hit you.

If you can kite em, and snipe em. The key is to know what you can do with your fit you are flying and be able to recognize what your enemy may have. Avoid fights your not fit for and engage those that you are.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-08 16:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.



The best gun in the world is useless to someone who you just poked in the eyes.

So perhaps you should consider EWAR, or not exchanging direct gunfire (such as drones, smart bombs, etc).




I'm Caldari and so all our combat friagtes don't have drone capacity. Ewar fair might stop them shooting but it also takes up resources for the guns to kill them with. And yes I'm solo PvPing tell me me to join a gang please.

Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.


we're talking about frigates here and I'm unwilling to risk my cruiser with only 50m ISK in my wallet.
Haramir Haleths
Nutella Bande
#7 - 2013-07-08 16:18:58 UTC
T2 guns are not better then T1 Meta 4 guns. They are cheaper and you can use more specialized ammo.
And mostly its not the weapon who wins the fight. Its your competence and tactics.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-08 16:21:43 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.


you can use faction ammo in t1 guns.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#9 - 2013-07-08 16:22:36 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.



The best gun in the world is useless to someone who you just poked in the eyes.

So perhaps you should consider EWAR, or not exchanging direct gunfire (such as drones, smart bombs, etc).




I'm Caldari and so all our combat friagtes don't have drone capacity. Ewar fair might stop them shooting but it also takes up resources for the guns to kill them with. And yes I'm solo PvPing tell me me to join a gang please.

Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.


we're talking about frigates here and I'm unwilling to risk my cruiser with only 50m ISK in my wallet.



Ah. Keep flying cheap and keep working at it. BTW some of the other advice in this thread is pretty good too.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#10 - 2013-07-08 16:24:06 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:

Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.


we're talking about frigates here and I'm unwilling to risk my cruiser with only 50m ISK in my wallet.


Bring friends (with more guns).

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-07-08 16:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Freighdee Katt
If you are flying identical fits, with identical SP levels in all relevant skills, and the only difference is that one fit is Tech 1 Meta 0 and the other is Tech 2, the only variable left is player skill. However, the Tech 2 fit is going to do double the damage at twice the range, and it also likely will have 1/3 more EHP and will be able to dictate range on you.

So if the guy in the Tech 2 fit is any good, then he can simply pick a range at which he hits you hard and you hit him little or not at all, and since he has more EHP than you to start with, the fight is over before it started, unless he is very bad at EvE, or just makes a lot of stupid mistakes. It will take quite a bit of player skill to close that gear gap, but crappy players in expensive kit are not exactly hard to find in this game. A good eye for careful target selection can go a long way, but it also will mean you run a lot more often than you fight.

Keep in mind, he also may have links on his side, which gives him a further edge. Of course, you can bring that same edge, if you have it. If you put a link supported T1M0 fit up against a straight Tech 2 fit without links, then the gap gets somewhat smaller and easier to close.

Or, as noted, bring a whole bunch of your noobfit friends along. Make that 1v1 into a 1v3 or 1v5, and the odds start to tip in your favor, assuming all of your 3 or 5 rememberd to load up on clue before undocking. Then maybe you only need the other guy to make one mistake instead of a whole slew of them, and that one mistake could be as simple as choosing to engage.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-08 16:24:22 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.



The best gun in the world is useless to someone who you just poked in the eyes.

So perhaps you should consider EWAR, or not exchanging direct gunfire (such as drones, smart bombs, etc).




I'm Caldari and so all our combat friagtes don't have drone capacity. Ewar fair might stop them shooting but it also takes up resources for the guns to kill them with. And yes I'm solo PvPing tell me me to join a gang please.

Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.


we're talking about frigates here and I'm unwilling to risk my cruiser with only 50m ISK in my wallet.


As a Caldari, you could use missiles to either kite the enemy or speedtank without screwing your own tracking.
The Condor is great ship for that, but Kestrels can also become very dangerous frigates.
T2 enemy guns cannot hurt you if you either stay out of range or orbit so fast that it becomes almost impossible to track you.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#13 - 2013-07-08 16:26:09 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.






^^^


Go with the Code.
www.minerbumping.com

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-07-08 16:32:49 UTC
If you you're finding FW frustrating because you just want more "gudfites" at more or less equal (low) levels of SP, kit, and player skill, then try joining RvB for a while. That way you can have some fun while you're gaining the SP needed to close the gear gap in the wild.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-08 16:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.



The best gun in the world is useless to someone who you just poked in the eyes.

So perhaps you should consider EWAR, or not exchanging direct gunfire (such as drones, smart bombs, etc).




I'm Caldari and so all our combat friagtes don't have drone capacity. Ewar fair might stop them shooting but it also takes up resources for the guns to kill them with. And yes I'm solo PvPing tell me me to join a gang please.

Doc Fury wrote:
Bring more guns.


we're talking about frigates here and I'm unwilling to risk my cruiser with only 50m ISK in my wallet.


As a Caldari, you could use missiles to either kite the enemy or speedtank without screwing your own tracking.
The Condor is great ship for that, but Kestrels can also become very dangerous frigates.
T2 enemy guns cannot hurt you if you either stay out of range or orbit so fast that it becomes almost impossible to track you.


A long list of destroyed Kestrels seem to suggest that that is not the case

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1675337&view=losses&m=6&y=2013

also the main reason I'm using standard tech 1 weapons and ammo is that with less than 50m ISK if I splash out 10m on a PvP ships thart will die in a few seconds I have to spend a full night mining/missioning to replace it. and yes I can only run level 2 security missions. For some reason they just won't give me a level 3
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#16 - 2013-07-08 16:43:08 UTC
So, this whole "Tech2 is suddenly unfair to us noobs" bull**** must be the new "hot topic", eh?

Try doing what everyone else is doing...training. That seems to work well enough.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-07-08 16:58:54 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
So, this whole "Tech2 is suddenly unfair to us noobs" bull**** must be the new "hot topic", eh?

Try doing what everyone else is doing...training. That seems to work well enough.


I am but half the time it isn't doing any good. I wasn't using rigs so I trained rigs after suggestions on the forum. I lasted 10 seconds more. I train a bit more, my frigate and pod is blown to bits in a gate camp by battlecruisers. I complain about it on the forum. People say I shouldn't play this game. I give up in frustration and go back to mining to rebuild my lost founds.

I try to PvP again and again and each time I just die instantly.
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#18 - 2013-07-08 16:59:39 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Recently I've been losing battles to enemy tech 1 ships but with tech 2 guns (often faction ammo). While I know I'm probadly doomed in winning such fights I'm still going to ask if its possible to beat these more powerful targets with weaker weapons?

This trend is what made me give up FW, it just makes it impossible to find a fight you can have any real chance in.


Optimal, falloff and tracking
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#19 - 2013-07-08 17:15:15 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
So, this whole "Tech2 is suddenly unfair to us noobs" bull**** must be the new "hot topic", eh?

Try doing what everyone else is doing...training. That seems to work well enough.


I am but half the time it isn't doing any good. I wasn't using rigs so I trained rigs after suggestions on the forum. I lasted 10 seconds more. I train a bit more, my frigate and pod is blown to bits in a gate camp by battlecruisers. I complain about it on the forum. People say I shouldn't play this game. I give up in frustration and go back to mining to rebuild my lost founds.

I try to PvP again and again and each time I just die instantly.


your time will come. suffering now is only the flame that will temper your future steel.

either that...

or you will just always be bad. such is the way of eve.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#20 - 2013-07-08 17:33:51 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
So, this whole "Tech2 is suddenly unfair to us noobs" bull**** must be the new "hot topic", eh?

Try doing what everyone else is doing...training. That seems to work well enough.


I am but half the time it isn't doing any good. I wasn't using rigs so I trained rigs after suggestions on the forum. I lasted 10 seconds more. I train a bit more, my frigate and pod is blown to bits in a gate camp by battlecruisers. I complain about it on the forum. People say I shouldn't play this game. I give up in frustration and go back to mining to rebuild my lost founds.

I try to PvP again and again and each time I just die instantly.



When you get killed by someone ask for their fit, that way you can learn what beat you. Just keep experimenting, while training. T2 guns arent a long train at all for frigates.
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