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Stealth bomber mines
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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-08 14:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mines cause lag and are buggy.

But I have an idea for a different mine.

A module with the same fitting requirements as a bomb launcher that would launch bombs that lack propulsion systems.
They do the same damage as bombs and have 30km range and 20km falloff, but will only go off if a ship is within 30km for 2 seconds. They will also have a small secondary explosion killing the pod.

They will take 5 seconds to arm after being deployed, if the ship that dropped the mine hasn't left yet he will explode.
These mines can not be locked or damaged after they are armed but will only last for 15 minutes or until another the owner drops another mine, or leaves system making it scoopable by anyone.
The exception to the damage rule is other mines, if the mine is damaged by more than one mine it will be destroyed.

All objects will set off the mines, bubbles, asteroids, pos mods, etc. With the exception of bomber bombs,mines, drones, and missiles. Stargates will set off the mine from 60km away.

The idea is these mines could be rapidly thrown up as a wall between enemy fleets, forcing them to turn around or making it extremely tricky to maneuver. A possible counter would be sending nublets in frigates to kamikaze them.

The price for these mines should be half of bombs.

They are also clearly visible on dscan.




The balancing part for these is tricky and suggestions would be nice
-how do you prevent them from being the ultimate camping tool?
-how do you make them useful without overshadowing bombs?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Broxus Maximas
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-07-08 14:58:23 UTC
Will make for some very nasty gate camps.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-07-08 14:59:41 UTC
Broxus Maximas wrote:
Will make for some very nasty gate camps.

perhaps gates will set off the mines if they are within 60km?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#4 - 2013-07-08 15:25:13 UTC
I like the idea. The pod killing seems a bit OP though. But yeh some restriction on gates would be needed otherwise gate camps would be a *****
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-08 15:27:51 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
I like the idea. The pod killing seems a bit OP though. But yeh some restriction on gates would be needed otherwise gate camps would be a *****


Well I figured it made sense since people will just throw frigates into these things to disarm them.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#6 - 2013-07-08 15:51:49 UTC
Commander Ted to the rescue...

I like the idea.

Needs some polish though.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-08 15:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Another idea, make the launcher for use on a new ship class, a frigate that can use cruise missiles instead of torpedoes.

I am also unsure about the mines damaging each other, being able to stack a whole bunch of mines on top of each other would be interesting since the bombers can only launch one at a time and it would be fairly easy for a ship to turn around and not run into the mines or use a smartbomb to destroy them before 5 seconds are up.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-07-08 15:57:32 UTC
But if only two mines can hit a ship, since they'll just explode harmlessly if more than that go off, battleships can just ignore them and anything else can either go around or just turn off thier MWD.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#9 - 2013-07-08 15:58:55 UTC
no to mines being deployed via a bomb launcher .. besides the name indicating why :)
cloaky stealth bombers would be OP they would just appear and lay a massive line of bombs without the risks of using normal bombs.

Also as powerful as a bomb but half the price doesn't sound at all odd..
half the price half the effects .. you get what you pay for
also mines would have to operate differently otherwise its just a sentry bomb in effect with a proximity detonator.

Also it would be more likely they would add a new T2 ship to lay them.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-07-08 16:00:46 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
no to mines being deployed via a bomb launcher .. besides the name indicating why :)
cloaky stealth bombers would be OP they would just appear and lay a massive line of bombs without the risks of using normal bombs.

Also as powerful as a bomb but half the price doesn't sound at all odd..
half the price half the effects .. you get what you pay for
also mines would have to operate differently otherwise its just a sentry bomb in effect with a proximity detonator.

Also it would be more likely they would add a new T2 ship to lay them.


Stealth bombers are already cloaky.

Also the lower risk is balanced by the fact you can easily just turn around and avoid these mines.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-07-08 16:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Danika Princip wrote:
But if only two mines can hit a ship, since they'll just explode harmlessly if more than that go off, battleships can just ignore them and anything else can either go around or just turn off thier MWD.

i am unsure about that mechanic, as I said please offer some advice as to how they could be more balanced.

Perhaps infinite stacking of the mines but they would have a longer arming time? Maybe 10 seconds? Maybe boost the damage of the mines and keep the stacking penalty?

Although if you position maybe 5-10 of these things in a wall or a half sphere to force ships to turn around that could be effective. It would require a lot of coordination but if it was planned ahead of time you could probably do some fairly intricate formations with them.

I also had in the back of my mind that battleships would be the ones able to avoid mines the best because they have MJDs and can stop before they run into a mine along with the damage amounts. As for smaller ships, all it takes is one tard and everyone in 50km of the mine takes some damage.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#12 - 2013-07-08 16:04:10 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
no to mines being deployed via a bomb launcher .. besides the name indicating why :)
cloaky stealth bombers would be OP they would just appear and lay a massive line of bombs without the risks of using normal bombs.

Also as powerful as a bomb but half the price doesn't sound at all odd..
half the price half the effects .. you get what you pay for
also mines would have to operate differently otherwise its just a sentry bomb in effect with a proximity detonator.

Also it would be more likely they would add a new T2 ship to lay them.


Stealth bombers are already cloaky.

Also the lower risk is balanced by the fact you can easily just turn around and avoid these mines.


i know they are cloaky .. nevermind ... also it wouldn't be hard to surround a fleet with these with the ability to just sneak around them being cloaked would make it very easy

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-07-08 16:07:15 UTC
Harvey James wrote:


i know they are cloaky .. nevermind ... also it wouldn't be hard to surround a fleet with these with the ability to just sneak around them being cloaked would make it very easy

So? You have 5 seconds to kill the bombers or their mines, and you could only surround a fleet if they aren't moving or they are in a very well planned trap that may have been set up long ahead of time.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-07-08 16:12:02 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
But if only two mines can hit a ship, since they'll just explode harmlessly if more than that go off, battleships can just ignore them and anything else can either go around or just turn off thier MWD.

i am unsure about that mechanic, as I said please offer some advice as to how they could be more balanced.

Perhaps infinite stacking of the mines but they would have a longer arming time? Maybe 10 seconds? Maybe boost the damage of the mines and keep the stacking penalty?

Although if you position maybe 5-10 of these things in a wall or a half sphere to force ships to turn around that could be effective. It would require a lot of coordination but if it was planned ahead of time you could probably do some fairly intricate formations with them.



If you make the things able to pop BS with ease, then no-one will ever use regular bombs again, they'll just drop these at 0 on a hostile fleet and laugh. If they only last 15 minutes then they're no use for camping anything, so suicide dropping them like that would be pretty much the only way to use them effectively too. Infinate stacking only serves to encourage things like this.

If you position them like that 10 or 15 minutes in advance, odds are that your targets will have changed direction by then anyway. Fleets move around a lot, not always in predictable directions. With the original idea, if you position them like that far enough apart not to blow eachother up, you're not going to hit much with them anyway and the distributed damage would be easy to ignore and rep later.



And as for surrounding a fleet with them, why? If they do the same damage as bombs but blow eachother apart easier, you will not be able to kill anything bigger than an MWDing frigate or maybe a cruiser with them. To BS or BC, they'll be an annoyance.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-08 16:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Danika Princip wrote:



If you make the things able to pop BS with ease, then no-one will ever use regular bombs again, they'll just drop these at 0 on a hostile fleet and laugh. If they only last 15 minutes then they're no use for camping anything, so suicide dropping them like that would be pretty much the only way to use them effectively too. Infinate stacking only serves to encourage things like this.

If you position them like that 10 or 15 minutes in advance, odds are that your targets will have changed direction by then anyway. Fleets move around a lot, not always in predictable directions. With the original idea, if you position them like that far enough apart not to blow eachother up, you're not going to hit much with them anyway and the distributed damage would be easy to ignore and rep later.



And as for surrounding a fleet with them, why? If they do the same damage as bombs but blow eachother apart easier, you will not be able to kill anything bigger than an MWDing frigate or maybe a cruiser with them. To BS or BC, they'll be an annoyance.


Alright so how about x6 the damage of a bomb with a 50km full damage range, a 5 second arm time and they detonate at a proximity of 50km immediately, without being able to stack. They will not arm at all if a ship other than the owner is within 50km.

They would have 50k ehp also.

Also make there cost be about 100mil each this time

Also cloaked ships don't set them off.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#16 - 2013-07-08 16:26:49 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
But if only two mines can hit a ship, since they'll just explode harmlessly if more than that go off, battleships can just ignore them and anything else can either go around or just turn off thier MWD.


You should be able to set up 4 of these (with a large bubble) to POSSIBLY hit a fleet at the same time by setting them up 31km away from each other since a fleet will land on grid in a small bubble.

But really this will be very low risk PVP and therefore I have to -1 this. I see a SB just waiting until the system is either empty, or full of blues, then setting them up and warping off until they get a KM. Then when the system clears again, they setup the mines again.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#17 - 2013-07-08 16:29:50 UTC
Drone mines? Deploy and run away... When you deploy them they automatically disown you...

They can only activate if your uncloaked and not in a pod

Make another tier of SB that can store and deploy drones with no bonuses
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#18 - 2013-07-08 16:31:36 UTC
Although a different approach to this would be instead of causing damage when it explodes, it bumps all ships within its range. Then the bumped ships could set off other mines, causing them to ping pong for awhile Twisted

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.