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100mn Tengu still viable? (PVP)
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Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#41 - 2013-07-06 11:23:05 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Viribus wrote:

The gist is that HMLs are bad and any 100mn fit using them is likewise bad. Use RMLs or HAMs


I just didn't do the comparison of HML tengu to RLM tengu. You're right, RMLs are flatout superior to HMLs. The little lack of range is - I guess - totally made up for with that projection. It really is a rad sad to see a tengu pushing near 400dps with RLMs against cruisers at unlinked point range :< And the fitting is suddenly way easier, and doesn't need 2 odd CN HMLs \o/

God's Apples wrote:

Although, if you have to ask on the EvE-O forums whether a 100mn tengu is good and how to fit one I suggest you don't fly a 100mn tengu.


I doubt that asking a question about a ship disqualifies you from using it. To be fair, I doubt a lot of people have (especially those that fly something different from lowsec/nullsec-flavor-of-the-month) been aware of RML-tengus, at least I haven't been - and neither are the tengus I'm shooting at :) Lucky me.
I also have asked on some forums, wether or not a certain deimos fit is good and that surely doesn't disqualify me using it. And who did you ask before you fitted up your first tengu? Did everything right from the beginning? Guess, you've been watching 'crazy tengu' then :p


Throw a T2 hydraulic bay on there, and the problem is basically fixed :) But like I said, i would take the 6 launcher 90K EHP 620 DPS rlm tengu over a 100mn nowadays.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#42 - 2013-07-06 11:24:21 UTC
Kitten Ripper wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Because I am calling bullshit, as the ship does not exist.

You are pvping with offgrid booster, pride yourself with a handful of kills, say its all because of RLM and now you call BS.

*facepalm*


I don't pride myself, on a 'handful' of kills. I was just showing a few BR's that I have. In those BR's I was trying to make the point that an RLM caracal can be quite effective against things other than frigs.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-07-06 14:55:47 UTC
Kitten Ripper wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Because I am calling bullshit, as the ship does not exist.

You are pvping with offgrid booster, pride yourself with a handful of kills, say its all because of RLM and now you call BS.

*facepalm*


everyone pvps with offgrid booster it doesnt even need to be brought up anymore does it?

are you saying RLM arent superior? if not then why arent they? Because Im looking at applied dps and ham sucks, but i dont want it to suck so if Im missing a peice of the puzzle that will turn them back into being good then Im all ears.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#44 - 2013-07-06 15:06:45 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Kitten Ripper wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Because I am calling bullshit, as the ship does not exist.

You are pvping with offgrid booster, pride yourself with a handful of kills, say its all because of RLM and now you call BS.

*facepalm*


everyone pvps with offgrid booster it doesnt even need to be brought up anymore does it?

are you saying RLM arent superior? if not then why arent they? Because Im looking at applied dps and ham sucks, but i dont want it to suck so if Im missing a peice of the puzzle that will turn them back into being good then Im all ears.


HAMS are amazing if you can have a bonused TP in your fleet. So if you can have a minni frig 5 vigil or minni cruisers 5 bellicose with you, then yah use HAM's. But because i don't have people waiting in line to basically be my own personal TP- I would rather use a system that can hold up on its own.

As for links. I do use them here and there. I feel that using links is a great tool when you want to engage large gangs. I don't think that using links is cool for arranged 1v1's or if you are out looking for cool solo frig fights. Links are not an automatic 'I win' button if its you vs a gang. It still takes a lot of mulitasking, knowledge, and situational awareness to make a fight go your way. A single scram / web that lands on your ship- even for a second will kill you. Or at least that is what happens in the areas I fly in.

That said, I feel that people do tend to abuse links. LML condors / Damp hookbils looking for frig 1v1's is really a lame playstyle. They are not challenging themselves. I think that is the difference between PvP styles. I use links to further my engagement window and push for more challenging and complex fights. I do not use links for a simple lol i orbit and kill you situation.
tsuggerpuppe
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-07-08 10:38:26 UTC
I know there have been posts why RLM is better and so on, but I would like to know if there is a specific fitting for a 100MN AB Tengu with T2 HAMs?

It shall be used for mainly solo PvP (sometimes in a very small gang), so HAMs look better to me as I don't need to be farer away than 30km to keep the point. As I will be flying in 0.0 I would prefer AB due to working in warp bubbles instead of 10MN MWD.

I have found a lot of older fits (pre HM-Nerf and so on), but nothing newer. I very often read (eo-forum, other forums, BC), that a cheap passive fit or expensive active fit should be used. But I only found those expensive active fittings, not really a cheap passive one? And usually I would think I am good at using google. As I would prefer to loose 4x cheap Tengus instead of 1 expensive Tengu and I am not a hero in pvp so far I am looking for the 100MN AB fitting.

So is there a 100MN AB fitting with HAMS, that works well enough? From my Caracal and my Drake I have experienced, that Javalins work against fast targets quite well, so I do not see the necessity to give up dps for taking down larger targets much faster and break their tank because I know there will be always a counter to your fit.

Really would appreciate your help on a fitting as I am on business trip at the moment and will return to home (where I have PYFA ;) ) on Thursday only.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#46 - 2013-07-08 12:08:39 UTC
tsuggerpuppe wrote:
As I would prefer to loose 4x cheap Tengus instead of 1 expensive Tengu and I am not a hero in pvp so far I am looking for the 100MN AB fitting.


For Hams, i guess it's cheapest to go with a 'gatotte' med cap booster, fed navy 100mn instead of core, and a pith-c-type large SB. Believe that even with two ACR IIs you either need a pg imp or 2 caldari navy HAMs. Rest should be obvious. Pricetag should hover around 800-900mil.
tsuggerpuppe
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-07-08 12:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: tsuggerpuppe
thanks for your reply.

I like to do wormhole raids as well from time to time, so Buffer would be preferred due to neuting. If no pvp is possible I like doing the anoms.

Wouldn't this work?

[Tengu, PvP Tengu]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Warp Disruptor II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
EM Ward Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Still one ancillary rig would be needed, but in exchange for the lowslots you get more tank and the pg you should need w/o implants.
TP for better damage application against smaller targets (both, sleeper and players)
If this doesn't fit, let me know.

Edit: I guess some nanos might be useful, but can't integrate them into this fit. I would possible upgrade the Warp Disruptor to True Sansha version as I think the extra range is worth this isk due to difficulty in maneuvering a 100MN AB ship.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#48 - 2013-07-08 13:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
tsuggerpuppe wrote:

Wouldn't this work?


Needs some fundamental changes...
Your lows should be 3 BCUs and 2 nanos, so your align time reaches values that are worthy the name 100mn-tengu. Tengu got an insane aligntime, and increasing this further grants you the agility needed to capitalize on a 100mn in a kite situation.

Your mids should be a 100mn AB, a med cap booster with 800s (navy 400s if you use a gist large booster), a large shield booster (gist is great, but pith does fine aswell, though it has different strengths), an invuln, the longest point+web you can buy. 30km point is near mandatory, atleast take a TS point for 28km pointrange.

The rigs will need to be two tech-II ancillary current routers and a tech-II Em-Rig, so that not the firstbest laserboat/emp-projectile tears you a new one. (I guess some daredevils would squeeze in a flarerig instead)
tsuggerpuppe
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-07-08 13:59:10 UTC
In that case you could have shortened it and just write: Use an active Tengu. Because that's at the end what your posts tell me and there are plenty of fittings available. At no point you give a hint to those cheap passive Tengu fits I have read about. Maybe they just don't exist anymore after HM was nerfed.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#50 - 2013-07-08 17:15:19 UTC
If I had to fly a 100MN now I would use this:

[Tengu, New Setup 3]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Gist B-Type 100MN Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst



If you forced me to HAM, i would use the same fit. Just switch a nano for a PDS.
Vorenius Jax
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-07-09 01:00:00 UTC
Is the utility you gain with two webs for fighting off tackle really worth the trade off in tanking ability?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-07-09 02:20:22 UTC
Vorenius Jax wrote:
Is the utility you gain with two webs for fighting off tackle really worth the trade off in tanking ability?


well tackles not gonna kill you....their fleet will so yeah you wanna get rid of that tackle asap and 2 webs means killing 1 tackle very quickly or being able to keep 2 off you at once.

Art of Explosions
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#53 - 2013-07-09 02:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
You need dual web to shut down light tackle coming in to web you. HML's apply horrible damage to frigs. But if they are dual webbed, you will be applying full CN :D A tengu does not survive on tank, but on speed. If you can keep the webs off, you can live.
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