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(BUG) The skills, {type} Armor Compensation: Glitch in fitting window causes displeasing results.

Author
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#1 - 2013-07-04 05:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dragon
It is not until the item is fitted unto the ship, that the actual skill is added to the fittings window's readout results.
Compared to mousing over an moduel and watching for change in the fitting window, without placing the item on the ship.
Again, in the later case, the skills are not applied to the entire equation that is displayed on the fitting window when mousing over the item, only the items values, not the pilot's skills . . . . it is only when the pilot adds the item unto the ship, then the skills are applied to the fitting window readout output.

This can lead to various time consuming endovers that i would not recommend anyone to experience.

I used an "Centii A-Type EM Plating".
Considering the skill "Em Armor Compensation".
On the ship "Navy Issue, Megathron".
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#2 - 2013-07-04 09:22:04 UTC
i don't think this is a bug

all modules show their raw stats in hangar, but show the stats including skills / ship bonus / module bonus / rigs...etc... once fitted on the ship.


this is because the final value depend both on skill AND ship / fitting

ex: a 800mm autocannon 2.

it's optimal / falloff will be altered by your skills AND the ship you fit it to AND the number/type of tracking enhancers / tracking computers AND the rigs you fitted.

same apply for all modules, even for the drones


if you have trouble fitting your ships, i kindly suggest you use a 3rd party software such as eve HQ or EFT this will really help you achieve the most efficient fit vs you skills Big smile
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#3 - 2013-07-06 15:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dragon
Yeahb absolutlly.

Try rolling your mouse over any module in your hanger and monitor the fitting window.

At that point you have a unique ship that does not change.
As well as your skill points (that do not change).

So, there really is no obsucrity
in what the fitting window's
variables are handeling,
because the ship does not change nor your character (ship bonuses / skills / "and so on").

My overall concern was that i lost allot of game hours in trying to figure out
where the skill [Type] Armor Compensation was being utilized.
This bug (although desputed ^^) could possibly enrage players or cause a bad experience.

To recap the bug, example:
using "EM armor compensation (skill)" and "Corelum A-Type Energized EM Membrane".
Place the moduel in the item hanger, and have the skill at an higher level then low (to see any effect).
Compare the fitting windows readouts between mounting the module or just mousing over it in the item hanger.
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#4 - 2013-07-06 16:43:04 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:
Yeahb absolutlly.

Try rolling your mouse over any module in your hanger and monitor the fitting window.

At that point you have a unique ship that does not change.
As well as your skill points (that do not change).

So, there really is no obsucrity
in what the fitting window's
variables are handeling,
because the ship does not change nor your character (ship bonuses / skills / "and so on").

My overall concern was that i lost allot of game hours in trying to figure out
where the skill [Type] Armor Compensation was being utilized.
This bug (although desputed ^^) could possibly enrage players or cause a bad experience.

To recap the bug, example:
using "EM armor compensation (skill)" and "Corelum A-Type Energized EM Membrane".
Place the moduel in the item hanger, and have the skill at an higher level then low (to see any effect).
Compare the fitting windows readouts between mounting the module or just mousing over it in the item hanger.

actually, this is not a bug, this is how the game behave, and it is intended to behave this way.

the fact is that all the stats cannot be calculated unless the module is part of a fitting, because of all the parameters that can change it's stats, and not only the % of resist.

for instance, it's cpu or pwg could be modified by skills, but also by the ship / rigs / modules you add on said ship.

the game as always behaved like that, and there are no reason to change it.

tbh, there is absolutely no interest in displaying anything but the raw stats of the module, unless it is actually fitted on a ship
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#5 - 2013-07-06 17:01:37 UTC
I see that you are stead fast on that perspective,
and I apreciate it.
Although,
I cannot understand . . . cause the ship does not move nor the skills when the items are "moused over".

Wait wait, whatever, lets move on :D

What about a single phrase in certain moduel's descriptions.
A phrase that would somehow convey information to the pilot.
Information that would somehow prevent the pilot from waisting multiple hours trying to find the armor toughener that was affected by the skill "[type] Armor Compensation" . . .

a) the 4 skills themselves could have a tab added into their information tab.
A tab that would tell the pilot what moduels are utilizable by the skill.

b) the modules that are affected by the skill could have an added phrase in their description, notifing pilots that they have to mount the moduel to see the gain:
"Mounting is required to calculate moduel's utility".
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#6 - 2013-07-06 22:30:41 UTC
I also think this won't be considered a bug, but mostly working as intended if only for technical reasons.

I would second seth's idea to use a 3rd party fitting tool. And while I don't know any that allows you to check on a skill which modules are affected (except for skill level prereqs as also shown ingame) EveHQ can do it the other way round: you can open a module and see a list of all skills, implants, ship bonuses, etc. that affect this module. Maybe this would help.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#7 - 2013-07-08 09:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Sir Dragon wrote:
I see that you are stead fast on that perspective,
and I apreciate it.
Although,
I cannot understand . . . cause the ship does not move nor the skills when the items are "moused over".

Wait wait, whatever, lets move on :D

What about a single phrase in certain moduel's descriptions.
A phrase that would somehow convey information to the pilot.
Information that would somehow prevent the pilot from waisting multiple hours trying to find the armor toughener that was affected by the skill "[type] Armor Compensation" . . .

a) the 4 skills themselves could have a tab added into their information tab.
A tab that would tell the pilot what moduels are utilizable by the skill.

b) the modules that are affected by the skill could have an added phrase in their description, notifing pilots that they have to mount the moduel to see the gain:
"Mounting is required to calculate moduel's utility".

while the skills doesn't move, the ship is not set unless you actually put the module on it.

which ship to choose? the one you are in? a random one among the 20 in your hangar?
plus, it would be confusing, because the very same module would display different stats, depending on your active ship, this would confuse more than actually help ppl imao...

Rob Crowley wrote:
I also think this won't be considered a bug, but mostly working as intended if only for technical reasons.

I would second seth's idea to use a 3rd party fitting tool. And while I don't know any that allows you to check on a skill which modules are affected (except for skill level prereqs as also shown ingame) EveHQ can do it the other way round: you can open a module and see a list of all skills, implants, ship bonuses, etc. that affect this module. Maybe this would help.

the advantage of 3rd party tools, like EFT or EVEHQ, is that once a module is "fitted", right clicking said module give you a lot of options.

among those options, there is a list of ALL the skills affecting this particular module, and you can simulate different skill levels.

(usefull to see how ship stats will be after a given skillplan for example).

and they use API, so you don't have to manually import all your skills, it will sync itself :)

i strongly advise you give one of those a try, they really are priceless softwares to complete the ingame experience.


Eve Fitting Tool (EFT) is pretty simple and does only fittings

Eve HQ is more complexe, and allow to manage many (all?) things given in eve, prod management / fitings / skill plans / asset management etc.....

i also strongly advise you to give those a try, cause you will probably start playing with many fittings / modules (maybe even some you never heard about) and this will help you understand how many things could change one module stats, then you will understand why the game behave like this Big smile