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This is Eve . Wow.
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K Suri
Doomheim
#141 - 2011-11-09 04:31:45 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments, while the ones going with personal attacks get seen for the fools they are, thereby allowing you to gain support.

I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity.

Did you mean like this?

Post #772 Suicide gank topic.
Corina Jarr wrote:
Learn the game before you go off and sound like a moron (too late but try for next time).
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2011-11-09 04:38:15 UTC
When I was a young harlot the axe murderer who raised me always used to say, "Two wrongs make a right!"

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#143 - 2011-11-09 04:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
K Suri wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments, while the ones going with personal attacks get seen for the fools they are, thereby allowing you to gain support.

I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity.

Did you mean like this?

Post #772 Suicide gank topic.
Corina Jarr wrote:
Learn the game before you go off and sound like a moron (too late but try for next time).



Not only was his posting terrible (very hard to understand at times), but he was acting like a five year old in his continual "you LIE!!" manner. He was looking like a moron, so I called him on it. I'm not perfect. Being 15, I tend to have a shorter fuse than adults (not an acceptable excuse of course).


And if you notice, I followed it up with actual arguments. I didn't leave it at that.


Now that I think about it, I do feel a little bad about calling him a moron, even if not directly.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#144 - 2011-11-09 04:58:00 UTC
I know its a bad idea to post in general discussion,yet i cant resist...

From what im seeing is that some people feel that WOW has a larger playerbase and appears more attractive because of the fact that it is very..safe with very little consequenses.
I wont say that there is no truth in this but you need to consider the fact that WOW is using a completely different..style. You go from elfs and goblins to space ships. In general you will find that there is many people out there that can enjoy this kind of gameplay,story and characters, while there are a lot less that even like the idea of spaceships.

Now you have to consider the diffense between the type of person who would play WOW against the general EVE player. Most EVE players are in their 20's and up. Most WOW players are 13 and up. Teenagers simply do not (in general) have the patience to play a game that is as complex as EVE is. They need a game where they can shift-click on an item,see that its better and throw it on and thats as advanced as they want to get. If they go into a raid or instance and die they want to get out before their repair bill goes over 30 gold. Why waste time on something if your going to loose stuff?

The same thing can be seen over and over again. In general WOW players want something that is fast and easy. Everything from the market,to getting gear,to joining and leaving guilds,leveling 6 alts,or just sitting telling bad jokes and trash talking in trade chat because you know there is no consequense.Heck look at guild bank thefts. If someone steals your stuff it will just be reimbursed so no need to worry about who you recruit or what aces they have.
And if something dosent go your way? Ohh boy ragequit and change servers and tell everyone how good you where on your previus one Lol

In EVE you cant escape your bad reputation. Your stuck with it unless your willing to start over. Yes i realize you can buy a character but then you have to think what reputation that person had.

So..What im trying to say is that sure,EVE MIGHT attract more players if there where locations where they could do whatever they wanted and not have to worry,but it would be a different kind of players,and it would be the start of changing EVE into...well..WOW in space.

I know that i for one wouldent like to see this happen. CCP made walking in station a realety to make the game more attractive to a different kind of player,and thats as far as they should go with altering the basics of the game. Let EVE be rough,atleast thats the EVE i fell in love with.
The number of players will never be the same as WOW,but atleast it will be a game where you dont just mindlessly run around for a few hours before you go to bed smiling because you killed a raid boss for the 6th time.

Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2011-11-09 05:05:51 UTC
Selling Swift Zulian Tiger, 5 plex ONO.
Renturu
In Glorium et Decorum
#146 - 2011-11-09 05:09:11 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
K Suri wrote:


Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?

Food for thought.


Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter.

On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes.

I'm sorry what was your point again?


#win

By the orders of PlunderBunny: ☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#147 - 2011-11-09 05:11:20 UTC
Ann133566 wrote:
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW?


According to BioWare, yes

Quote:
Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2011-11-09 05:12:06 UTC
Richard Aiel wrote:
Ann133566 wrote:
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW?


According to BioWare, yes

Quote:
Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."



Respect status: lost.

You can't beat WOW at its own game.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#149 - 2011-11-09 05:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
It's popular and successful, therefore it sucks.

Back in the old days, and I mean pre-BC, WoW was pretty cool. People went out and did crazy stuff like raiding capital cities and kiting bosses into market areas just for lolz, not for achievements and costume pieces like they do now. You had world pvp for its own sake and people had to actually work together and deal with failure when they went to run dungeons and raids.

It was never a sandbox like EVE, but it did get worse the day Blizzard figured out the gear forumula: farm instances, get gear, farm higher level instances, get higher level gear, repeat until you've watched the same bosses die so many times you wonder why they don't just give you the loot and spare everyone the trouble.
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#150 - 2011-11-09 05:14:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Aiel
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Richard Aiel wrote:
Ann133566 wrote:
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW?


According to BioWare, yes

Quote:
Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."



Respect status: lost.

You can't beat WOW at its own game.


Yeah why you think Im avoiding SWTOR
Im in the beta, but it got uninstalled.

Russell Casey wrote:
It's popular and successful, therefore it sucks.

Back in the old days, and I mean pre-BC, WoW was pretty cool. People went out and did crazy stuff like raiding capital cities and kiting bosses into market areas just for lolz, not for achievements and costume pieces like they do now. You had world pvp for its own sake and people had to actually work together and deal with failure when they went to run dungeons and raids.


I saw an article that theyre thinking of putting in progression servers

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Renturu
In Glorium et Decorum
#151 - 2011-11-09 05:17:37 UTC
Well, the only thing I could see as a "WOW experience" (such an absolute fail term, but we'll go with it) would be to make only 1.0 Concordable. No Concord in .9 down. That should be left to factions.

Come on, the start out systems are in 1.0 and you are generally protected. If you want to get more profitable, they need to join a corp, learn the ropes and get rich, like the "current player base" has. The one thing that I LOVE about EVE is that it is brutal... It's not all lovey dovey, hold your hand and give you a cookie. In fact, if you don't catch on quickly, you'll get raped, have your hands cut off and get your "cookie" taken away.

I guess when (that's meant "IF") Incarna goes full steam (with true WiS), the player base will grow as there are many who would love to play with space barbies rather than space ships. That, per CCP, is just not in the dice atm.

IDK, my plug nickel

By the orders of PlunderBunny: ☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2011-11-09 05:53:54 UTC
Wouldn't normally reply here, but among the bad there is the good posting too, and to that I'll respond.

I played WoW for a bit but disliked it fairly quickly, in fact the more I got into it, the less I liked it. I've played Eve for a little over half a year now, and I like Eve quite a bit more, although I go through periods of not playing then playing a bunch.

If this stings, sorry but the truth always hurts someone. The player base between the two games isn't very different. Eve players like to think there is, but the good folk are good regardless of the scenery and the video game loser stereotypes are the same everywhere. I've seen shockingly bad examples within days of playing any MMO, so to me, it's a wash.
The sad fact is that the single greatest frustration or 'glitch' in any MMO- is the other people.

One thing that no one ever mentions, but was the thing that struck me the hardest when I first played Eve- is that the actual gameplay of Eve is endless menu boxes. You can double click in space a bit, and hotkey systems, but really- the entire Eve 'experience' is a million menu boxes. Think about that- for as pretty as Eve is, you could essentially play it without the spaceship on screen, and in fact most screens become so cluttered with menu boxes flashing bits of info that you can often completely miss the space battle burning up your graphics card.

Obviously I still like Eve. Although I must admit that it's often more fun to READ about Eve than to PLAY Eve. It has a bewildering array of things to do, but they are all really a series of pop up menu boxes to do any of them.
That's why the drive for WiS. Even though I don't need WiS and never use it when docked- it's not why I got into Eve to begin with- I can still totally get why CCP went that way. You aren't a person, you are a ship- or series of them- and gameplay is menu boxes--- even if it turns out to be a good game model (again, it works for me) it's just 'not what you expect' in a game, especially if WoW is your paradigm, and that alone probably loses people by the time their trial is up.

Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay. Eve's reputation is horrible outside of the game base already- but add that vicious learning curve to the rather unexpected model of clicking menu boxes to play a game.....it's just not kids or renny festival leftovers that just 'don't get' Eve, it's certainly an acquired taste. CCP, imo, makes sense with WiS even if it's not my thing.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2011-11-09 05:58:16 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:

Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.


Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay.

That's when your argument fell short. I grew up on Diablo 2 and to a lesser extent Ultima Online. UO was very good before the PVE/PVP shard split. Diablo 2 had a large trust abuse/scam component to it that could make you quite a bit of money. It was awesome.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Taiwanistan
#154 - 2011-11-09 06:18:26 UTC
do you realize only wow can be wow?
look at all the garbage korean mmos
also glaring differences, multiple servers, and halfass market crippled by bind on pickup/use

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2011-11-09 06:22:15 UTC
Really, it's quite simple.

MMO creation flowchart:
SO YOU WANT TO MAKE A MMO!

1. Are you Sony Online Entertainment?
NO: Advance to question 2.
YES: Please cease existing instantly.

2. Are you Blizzard?
YES: Make WOW, a WOW expansion, or WOW 2
NO: Make something different from WOW or you'll die a painful bankrupt death even if you have an awesome IP to work with (ex: Warhammer, LOTR, Conan)

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#156 - 2011-11-09 06:26:24 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Alaric Faelen wrote:

Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.


Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay.

That's when your argument fell short.


I was first interested in EVE when I heard about the EVE Bank scam in 2006. I've never had the inclination (let alone the brains) to pull off such a stunt, but boy was I fascinated to hear about a game where it was possible.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#157 - 2011-11-09 06:29:59 UTC
K Suri wrote:
causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.


Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot? Cool

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#158 - 2011-11-09 06:34:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
K Suri wrote:
causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.


Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot? Cool


K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#159 - 2011-11-09 07:02:27 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?

A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.

Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.

Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.

Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?

Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.

Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?

Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?

Food for thought.


Completely safe areas will destroy EVE, EVE is based on conflict in all its forms.

its building pretty things is just one part of EVE, blowing them up is the second :P If high sec was safe then there would be less destruction and therefore less demand therefore less reason to make things....

Please think before you speak :)
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2011-11-09 08:53:22 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?

A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.

Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.

Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.

Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?

Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.

Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?

Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?

Food for thought.


Not that I have anything against World of Warcraft, but let me give a sample of SAT analogy question to help you understand the subtle differences between WoW and EVE:

World of Warcrft : EVE Online

(A) Hyundai Avante : Mercedes SL 65 AMG
(B) Seven-Eleven : Bergdorf Goodman
(C) Jack in the Box : El Bulli
(D) Gap for Kids : Giorgio Armani Collezioni
(E) Christmas Stories for Kids : Journals of Soren Kierkegaard

If the analogy stil doesn't convince you of the differences.... I don't know what else can.

Oh by the way, I do play WoW as well, just like how I enjoy eating McDonald's once in a while.