Player Features and Ideas Discussion

ok so i will attempt to outline the problems as i see them with cloak ships and possible changes to rebalance them and make them more useful but with a higher risk/reward ratio. Please provide feedback and suggestions.




The Problem:


Cloaky ships are moderately expensive

Cloaked ships cannot be found once in system unless u have 24/7 bubbles and cans on a gate with at least 1 tackler watching the gate for when they come thru.


Cloaking has no cost associated with it for a status change ( i.e no fuel cost)




The Solution


Covert ops cloaks now remove the player from local after 15 minutes ( or so) of inactivite I.E not shooting or talking to anyone

Covert Ops cloaks now require the use of " Nuclear Isotopes" to power the the device on such a small ship ( these will be explained in a moment)

introduce a new ship thats only purpose is to use a module called " Spatial Distortion Generator" - this device sends out pulses of multi spectrum light that disrupts cloaking units within range-
( range being based on the new Spacial disruption skill at say 5 KM per lvl with a minimum 2M skill points needed to train this skill to lvl 5)
the ship itself will be a FACTION ship that is a faction cov ops ( I.E dies really fast and fills a niche role so there wont be millions of them)





Nuclear Isotopes

- Special radiation from ***** Suns that is harvested using special gas harvesters.-

you fly to the sun and " mine" the raw plasma that is emitted from the sun. this has a chance to dmg your ship like mercoxit does adding a bit of risk to mining, no rats will show up but the dmg from the sun can be pretty severe. make it take a long time to mine but take up very little space in its un refined form.


Add PI or other invention/creation processes that allow for the refinement of the raw plasma into more compact and longer lasting fuel of different types based on the sun it was mined from ( example being you mine a low grade "red" sun for plasma that when refined gives 1 minute of cloaking per unit with size being tiny ( .1??) but mining a white dwarf would yield hi quality isotpes that give 10 minutes per unit but are bulkier( .3??)


these materials would have to be kept on ship using the cloak and it would consume them at regular intervals to keep your ship cloaked.

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I feel this would add several new layers to the game mechanics as well as a easier to understand risk/reward for cloakers by:
1, allowing a new source of income via Solar mining, solar manufacturing.

2, provide new PVE aspects to get ahold of these faction de cloaking ships.

3, limit the time a cloaky ship can camp a system from infinity down to hours or maybe days.

4, add a new level of skill and use for cloak ships by allowing complete invisibility for cov ops cloakers at the cost of fuel to maintain this stealth.





i have other potential ideas for improving this but wanted to put a rough idea out first and get feedback

please feel free to comment and tell me what you think

Why are these a problem and why do they need fixing? Simply stating they are, doesn't make it so.

useless troll reply ignored



no stating its a problem doesnt make it one but hundreds of people stating its a problem does make it one. personally i ignore cloakers because they cant do squat to me others aren't so lucky and will stay docked up all day in fear.


dont want an anti afk cloaking if u had taken the time to actually read beyond the title you'd know this ^_^




so now as i said this is a idea to add game mechanics not a " wah cloak op" thread bc i want to make cloaking MORE op but also give it a cost and possible counter for those that can afford to do so

did u read the entire post? the problem is clearly stated that the ships cannot be found once in system ( in other words 0 risk)

the ships themselves can be pricey

and they have no upkeep so effectively u get a large advantage ( if you think disrupting your enemies movements isn't an advantage then you need to go back to relearn basic strategy) with no cost to maintain it unlike every other ship in the game



the solution was also clearly stated by making the more advanced cloaks require fuel ( which allows new mechanics and market interests )


to appease the " wah wah you ruined cloaks" people i have suggested that cloaks also grant invis to local after a certain amount of time ( which could be altered by skills, ship, or burning more fuel) much like how an SBU can be used to disrupt sov in a system



rather than filling the first page with a useless " you're wrong " post try posting a useful reply that adds to the base idea .


also reading the whole OP b4 commenting might be a good idea for future refference

short sweet and completely correct

im suggesting a new mechanic to allow for more tactical play, wider mining and industrial potential ( for carebears)

and make cloaking better ( for pvpers)

I'm missing the part where this makes cloaking any better for PVP'rs?

And otherwise no. For those of us living in WH space, who rely on our cloaks as much defensively as offensively, and have enough of a logistics headache hauling in POS fuel, I don't need another fuel to make and deal with hauling in.

Also, NOTHING in your proposal is new or unique to anything that hasn't already been proposed. The details may vary slightly, but same basic principle.

But you know they are there. But let's say for a minute that I agree it's zero risk, but surely that counts both ways doesn't it? For when they are cloaked they cannot even lock you, never mind shoot you. Which means balance, so not a problem.

Now you bring up cost. So the ships are pricey, now you want them to be more pricey? Sorry but what does this have to do with being cloaked and how does it solve any problem?

So they have no upkeep, what's the problem with this? Why does this need to be fixed? They cannot aggress whilst cloaked or use any modules. So should this new fuel now power everything else when cloaked, whilst we are at it? Cloaked cyno usage perhaps?
Oh and being cloaked cannot disrupt anything. If you decide to stop doing things, or stay docked, then that is your choice. No cloaked ship ever killed anyone, stopped anyone from using gates, docking, undocking, using modules, possing up, etc etc.

I'm not filling the pages with 'you're wrong', I'm merely asking what you think is wrong and for you to explain why it is. So far you haven't.

Oh and reading the forums to see if this idea has already been suggested, might also be a good idea. You know, for future reference.

However, the flip side of this is that you ALWAYS know that they are there (through Local)... which pretty much defeats the point of cloaking and "sneak attacks" in the first place (unless you use patience and sit around for awhile).

Unless you address this (Local), no change should go through as it unbalances the situation (absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment).



Cloaking ships don't disrupt your movements or activities... they just introduce a possible threat to them (which is something that people high-sec and low-sec have to deal with every day).

It is YOU who choose to disrupt your own movements under the possibility that something MIGHT happen... which is why so many people get ridiculed for complaining about afk-cloakers. Try plying your trade down in a low-sec "hot zone." When you go back to 0.0 space one cloaker will seem like nothing more than a fangless, clawless gremlin.


And also sets "time limits" for how effective certain ships can be... meaning that miners and ratters will stay docked up until the cloak fuel runs out and the "intruder" is killed. Then back to business as usual. Rinse and repeat.

Oh... and wormholers won't even be able to use cloaking ships in any appreciable way due to severely difficult logistics.



How about this... when you give Assault Frigates the ability to actually blow-up ratters, miners, and carebears in 0.0 systems (right now they dock up as soon as you appear in Local) then you can have your anti-cloaking measures. Not before.

Afk-cloaking is done in response to Local being used as an intel source. Take away the intel source... then afk-cloaking can have more direct counters placed against it. You want to keep your powerful intel? Then Afk-cloaking can't change (as it's one of the VERY few ways for a smaller force to do any damage to a 0.0 alliance).

1. Unlike some other posters i 100% agree that some form of reasonable counter to perma-cloaked camping needs to be found.

2. Sadly, making a vessel that can detect said cloaked vessels will lead to gate camps that are virtually impassable.

3. Your isotope idea sounds intriguing at first but after a bit of thought i came up with these problems:

a. If there is an NPC controlled dock in the system then the perma-cloaker just stores isotopes in that station and refuels as necessary, only thing we have accomplised is that perma-cloaking has an associated cost, we haven't solved the real problem. Also, along the same lines we must consider the affects that isotope costs will have on exploration vessels, blockade runners and other cloaky vessels being used for their intended purpose as well as 'legitimate' to coin a phrase here, short term spying.

b. most perma-camping cloakers are backed by large corps or alliances that can swallow any isotope fueling costs without blinking an eye.

c. Worst case scenario is if refueling isotopes can be done in space, then one cloaker brings more isotopes to the perma-camper and even in systems with no dock, perma-camping continues, it is just now a two person operation and again the major corps and alliances can easily afford both the manpower to have two ships work the perma-camp as well as the actual isotope costs.

Anything done to nerf cloaked ships will also have to apply to docked ships, and ships sheltering in POS. If you want to be able to detect and kill my cloaked bomber, then I should be able to kill your entire mining fleet that docked up to hide from me.