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Nightmare for L4, L5, Incursion PvE
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Bill Overbeck
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-07-06 20:44:25 UTC
I've recently acquired 3 billion from selling off my old indy character, and I'm planning to do PvE on this one now. Amarr ships, because I feel that Caldari is just... blegh. Personal taste, ofc.

I've began on L1s, and I'm blasting through them with T2 Pulses, and I'm skilling up for T2 Medium Pulses now. I plan to go all the way to L4s, maybe even fleet L5s and Incursions. I love Pulse lasers so far, easy to get into range using my fit and I usually end up speed tanking missions because of my Afterburner. However... I do know this won't be the case with cruisers and above. :(

I'm planning on getting into either a Nightmare or a Paladin, most likely Nightmare from the good feedback I've heard about it. It'd mean training T2 Beams and getting Tackys. Would it be worth going for a Nightmare for L4s, or getting into an Apoc / NApoc / Baddon? I love the model of the Nightmare and I love missions. Would it be efficient, both mission and isk wise, to get a Nightmare? I might be running the missions in fleets as well.
Dalts
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#2 - 2013-07-06 21:10:56 UTC
I'd suggest you just go straight to Incursions and pimp the Nightmare a bit to compensate skills. With Tachs you don't need T2 to be proficient and actually faction in particular are close to the DPS of T2 whilst be much easier on cap:-

4 x True Sansha Tachyons (or Imperial or Dark Blood)
2 x auto targetter (more target locks) or shield transfer or energy transfers (FC will advise)

2 x T2 Invuls (Dread Guristas or Caldari Navy if you can)
2 x Shield Extender
2 x Tracking Computer or one and a web

4 x Heat Sink T2
1 x Damage Control T2

Rig for lock range if needed or shield buffer normally
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#3 - 2013-07-06 21:41:43 UTC
Ugh, Dalts it is so painful to see bad advice handed out. Faction guns are not anywhere close to being as proficient as T2, a well fitted and trained toon has no issues with Cap in Incursions (Nightmare cap buddy each other), an untrained toon will get around 500dps with Faction guns not even close to the 1000DPS a Tachy nightmare is more than capable of. If you want to do Incursions in with 500dps bring a Cruiser if you want to do them in a BS then bring BS with the appropriate dps and Tank.

Bill you have the right Idea, train for your T2 Tachys, you will have very few problems doing missions in a Baddon or NApoc, When you’re ready to do Incursions train the shield skills for T2 active hardeners, and large Energy transfers. BTW, putting a faction hardener and extenders on without the proper T2 skill nets over 20k EHP loss on even the most basic fits.

Jumping into Incursions without training the basics for Tank, Guns and BS’s will only end bad and expensive.

When you want to try Incursions send me a mail, in the meantime stick with your plan, and you will do fine.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-06 22:09:48 UTC
Confirming incursions are fun and the way to go.
Ineun
Tungitanium Industrial
#5 - 2013-07-07 01:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ineun
The Nightmare is the way to go for level 4s if you're in Amarr space, no so great elsewhere.

as for incursions i find:

4x T2 Tachyons
2x T2 Large Energy Transfer ( you can get away with 1 with max cap and gun skills but i fit 2 to help lower skilled nightmares stay cap stable)

Deadspace MWD, the higher the better, less cap negation and less sigbloom
EM Ward amp, T2 or deadspace
2x Invul, T2 or deadspace
T2 Large Shield Extender
T2 Tracking Computer (script as needed)
T2 Sensor Booster (un scripted)

3x Navy heatsinks
T2 heatsink
Damage Control

T2 Elruition Rig
T2 Shield Thermal Rig
T2 Shield Extension Rig

try "The Valhalla Project" to dip your toes into incursions, good fleets (if you can get in theres lots of people usually wanting in)

Faction guns are OK but you should really go towards T2 ASAP, the 5% extra damage helps and does the addition of aurora and gleam for sniping/close range dps

if you can get a scimitar to tracking link you, you're in a good spot to really apply the dps on the sniper targets, and with gleam you can still hit the DPS targets for good damage
Dalts
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#6 - 2013-07-07 14:21:30 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Ugh, Dalts it is so painful to see bad advice handed out. Faction guns are not anywhere close to being as proficient as T2, a well fitted and trained toon has no issues with Cap in Incursions (Nightmare cap buddy each other), an untrained toon will get around 500dps with Faction guns not even close to the 1000DPS a Tachy nightmare is more than capable of. If you want to do Incursions in with 500dps bring a Cruiser if you want to do them in a BS then bring BS with the appropriate dps and Tank.

Bill you have the right Idea, train for your T2 Tachys, you will have very few problems doing missions in a Baddon or NApoc, When you’re ready to do Incursions train the shield skills for T2 active hardeners, and large Energy transfers. BTW, putting a faction hardener and extenders on without the proper T2 skill nets over 20k EHP loss on even the most basic fits.

Jumping into Incursions without training the basics for Tank, Guns and BS’s will only end bad and expensive.

When you want to try Incursions send me a mail, in the meantime stick with your plan, and you will do fine.


Fair enough that you know your Incursions, but equally so I've spent alot of time in Nightmares...

Faction Tachs with 4 Heat Sinks (T2) is 726 dps with Imperial Multi and all Lvl 4 skills, so 50% more than the figure you pulled out of thin air there. 114k EHP with 2 faction invuls, 2 large shield extender T2s and a T1 EM rig, with a spare mid, 2 spare rig slots and 2 spare highs for the cap transfers. Exactly why, given those stats, should he run lvl 1s and 2s instead of incursions??? Granted I specified T2 extenders and heat sinks, but they are both quck Lvl 5s to train, and the Heat Sinks can be factioned for pretty cheap for even more dps.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#7 - 2013-07-07 14:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Dalts wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Ugh, Dalts it is so painful to see bad advice handed out. Faction guns are not anywhere close to being as proficient as T2, a well fitted and trained toon has no issues with Cap in Incursions (Nightmare cap buddy each other), an untrained toon will get around 500dps with Faction guns not even close to the 1000DPS a Tachy nightmare is more than capable of. If you want to do Incursions in with 500dps bring a Cruiser if you want to do them in a BS then bring BS with the appropriate dps and Tank.

Bill you have the right Idea, train for your T2 Tachys, you will have very few problems doing missions in a Baddon or NApoc, When you’re ready to do Incursions train the shield skills for T2 active hardeners, and large Energy transfers. BTW, putting a faction hardener and extenders on without the proper T2 skill nets over 20k EHP loss on even the most basic fits.

Jumping into Incursions without training the basics for Tank, Guns and BS’s will only end bad and expensive.

When you want to try Incursions send me a mail, in the meantime stick with your plan, and you will do fine.


Fair enough that you know your Incursions, but equally so I've spent alot of time in Nightmares...

Faction Tachs with 4 Heat Sinks (T2) is 726 dps with Imperial Multi and all Lvl 4 skills, so 50% more than the figure you pulled out of thin air there. 114k EHP with 2 faction invuls, 2 large shield extender T2s and a T1 EM rig, with a spare mid, 2 spare rig slots and 2 spare highs for the cap transfers. Exactly why, given those stats, should he run lvl 1s and 2s instead of incursions??? Granted I specified T2 extenders and heat sinks, but they are both quck Lvl 5s to train, and the Heat Sinks can be factioned for pretty cheap for even more dps.

Nah Dalts I didn't look it up, I just dropped this toon into my Nightmare toons ship and looked at the numbers. The OP stated he was working on T2 medium lasers, so it would follow he is 20 days, give or take, away from T2 large, add another couple weeks to finish the last little bits to make it work right and next month I would happily accept him into fleet and get him making 120mil an hour with little to no risk of losing his Ship/ISK.

So the OP's original plan of doing LVL1-4 missions while skilling up the remaining things for a good nightmare pilot is sound and smart. Whereas cutting corners and buying expensive guns to put on an already expensive ship just so it looks like you can do the job, seems to be counterproductive and wasteful, IMO.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Darkwolf
#8 - 2013-07-08 07:09:11 UTC
Be aware that the rigs you use on your mission boat are likely to be different to the rigs you'll be expected to have for your incursion boat. Unless you want to chop/change rigs between the two, you'll need two ships.

How to proceed is up to you. Can't tell you how a Nightmare is for missions, but I can tell you the Nightmare is nice for incursions. Just pack two energy transfers in the highs, and cap buddy up with someone.
Starlight Kouvo
Howl at the Moon
#9 - 2013-07-08 08:06:13 UTC
I find my Nightmare is great in LVL4's and I do them in Mini space Shocked

I run T2 Pulse so 50km optimal with a nice shield booster and an afterburner if needed to close range.
Yes Angel missions are not great for this but for those I am planning an alternative ship for those.

Pops frigates of all factions in 1 to 2 shots out to 55-60km
After that its all gravy Big smile

And the Nightmare looks cool as hell.