Wormholes

Wormhole pvp is rare and is same old same old










Roam Null sec, Gud Fights to be had

I didn't read the whole thread so if this has already been suggested...my bad.

Off the top of my head, one potential PVP driver could be tripling or quadrupling the number of WH connections (and maybe even randomizing them).

Maybe if instead of your usual one static (2 in the case of C2s), you had 3 or 4 your potential for PVP should increase, no?

EDIT: It would make scanning a bigger PITA though :)

Conflict drivers do exist in wh's, but they are only meta (out of game drivers), all of the other things you mentioned, give us a stage, or oppurtunity to pvp, but do not drive us to do PVP.

-WH power have very weak projection relative to null sec for two reasons, randomness of the chain, and mass limits. This is still an oppurtunity to pvp, and frankly it is good to have it, it denies having too big of a blob.

-Sleepers might be conisdered one I agree, but the issue is the defender can so easily crit the hole making any sort of incursion close to impossible if they aren't totally stupid. For instance the proposed change of making the hole masses more random will help this into making it into a real conflict driver.

-We don't have SOV in wh, yes we do live there, but other than a spiritual attachment to a wh, there is no real in game reason to fight for it. If the odds are stacked a little against you, it is a wiser decision to pos out and wait out the invasion, or simply move. There are plenty of wh's to inhabit. If invasions were a little more feasible (some ideas were given) maybe this will become a conflict driver.

-I agree with this on theory, but it also faces the same problem where wh's are dime a dozen, and fighting for one is much harder than just finding an empty one with a similar effect. Supply outstrips demand. Maybe if we had less wh's (i am not saying we should) we will have to fight for them.

- I personally love it when null sec ventures into wh. But because of your stated reason, the difference in mechanics which make it a tad complicated for nullers, and the (not true always) image of rich wh dwellers fielding 5b deadspace fits, makes this a bad driver. I would love to see wormholers and nullsecrs be more involved in each others wars. But sadly there is no in game mechanic (drivers) that make this an attractive proposition.

Yes I know that wormholes weren't designed to be inhabited, and they were supposed to be conflict drivers themselves. You were supposed to scan them down and roam them, where finding roaming ratting gangs and having no fear of 20+ capitals (and no local) was an actual possibility. Now because people live in wh and can have a huge advantage over the attacker, and the attacker having no in game benefits (other than fun, revenge etc..) to actually take this huge risk and attack the defender's turf, invasions are remote possibilities. Add to that it is very difficult to actually disrupt the income of other entities in WH space, it is not an wise (froma purely isk perspective) decision to actually engage in PVP in wh space. Precisely because of the player warping the usage of wormholes (best thing ever), maybe they can take a look at this particular issue more closely.

This is where all the superbads complain they don't have enough pew and make suggestions to change a perfectly acceptable and fun part of space into blobfests. Apparently, fun should have nothing to do with pvp....and pvp should require +30 man fleets to be successful.

Nope, pretty sure that's always been C&P

I agree. They should remove corp bookmarks. They basically nerfed alot of conflict when they added those.

It seems that the post ran its steam, and we got at least some discussion out of it, I guess only the trolls have more to add.

Been a very nice discussion, and I least hope now it got an attention of 1 poor dev that has to read all of this.

I hate to say it, but wormholes look a helluva lot like nullsec. You have c1-4 holes that are for the most part worthless, similar to losec and a lot of nullsec. You then have c5-6 holes that are like the lower end of the truesec spectrum of null systems. This is especially true from a defensive and monetary standpoint when you consider the deadend null systems that have low truesec, have been fully upgraded and cyno jammed so that the capital ships in them can gorge themselves on pve content in relative safety.

/thread title



but gratz on the OP anyways....I think....lemme check who I'm blue with this minute and I'll get back to you

Worthless huh?

Well, can't argue with you on the C5/6 system. But then look who is in them...a lot of nullsec'rs. It's not surprising that many of the suggestions in this thread were null-centric. They're crying that they're not getting enough pew. But when I compared Bitten with a total of +3000 kills on eve-kill and +200 pilots with my corp having +700 kills and having 17 toons (mostly alts) we're getting over twice the pew per pilot......so yeah, I live in worthless space. Should I be the one that's crying? Or should those c5/6 guys realize that pew in w-space revolves around small gangs....not large fleets. While they're spectacular when they fight similarly capable fleet, in w-space, those are hard to find.

If effort is cumulative then Bitten should be far far outpacing my corp's per pilot numbers. But, they're not...instead we're far far outpacing them with kills/pilot. It means they've surpassed the point of diminishing returns by a long shot...as far as w-space is concerned. Instead of realizing the realities we'll get to listen to them moan about how w-space is broken because they've chosen to play in a null-centric fashion....blobs + caps....I assume so they can maximize their win potential. But it doesn't maximize their pew potential which is what they say they want......certainly they can't have both...imo. There's a reason in nature why smaller more generalized organisms are more successful over all than specialized megafauna.

And by the way...what's worthless? I make 200mil/hr running my c4 static....400mil/hr when its just me and my alt. It's made me very comfortable. I don't want for isk. And I get plenty of pew. Can't always find it when I'm looking for it and some times there just aren't enough hours in a day for all of it. Sure, it's not c5/6 income but then I'm here for it all.....not cap fights/blob fests and don't have +50 people crammed into a single hole that all need to be fed.

The only thing we're lacking that c5/6 guys have are the caps and large numbers of players. I firmly believe it's their numbers, the blob style of fighting that is the crux of their pew problems because w-space will only support limited blob/cap fights.