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Coup d'etat in Egypt & Update British Cameraman
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#41 - 2013-07-05 15:31:58 UTC
Not exactly, Mubarak was a part of the military before hand and he was pro military. The billions in aid to the Army is a fairly nice amount of cash, but nothing the Egyptian state can't say thanks, but no thanks and replace it with a bit higher taxes.

The army is a component of Egyptian life too, and in a military enterprise there is loyalty to the people as much as the leaders, how else do they keep such an institution stable and motivated? The previous military rule only worked because the case could be legitimately made they were the best for the job, and with the Muslim Brotherhood the main opposition committing terrorist acts objectively its a fair point.

They aren't the best people on Earth I'll grant you that, but their priority is stability and defence of the nation, Israel sits to the north east across Suez so they have a damn good motivation to be sober and not get wrapped up in nationalistic or religious fervour. Also the people on the streets were demanding that the President be removed from power, till Egypt matures as a democracy the military will be the most educated, level headed and cohesive organisation in the country and its lucky they have such an institution to avoid becoming a state like Iran or worse, Zimbabwe given the Brotherhoods economic illiteracy.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Adunh Slavy
#42 - 2013-07-05 16:26:39 UTC
Tumahub wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Fixed


Fair point, but since I'm explaining it to statists, I had to use the (in)appropriate verbiage to convey the concept.

You've got to realize that, for most of them, it's mind-blowing to even broach the concept of the state from any viewpoint other than "magical human cooperation machine built on pure love and devotion that keeps the bad people from doing bad things."



+1

Understood :)

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-07-05 18:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tumahub
Graygor wrote:

America kind of hit the ground running as they benefited from The Enlightenment and 500 years of democratic evolution back in Britain.


Their advantage was they confederated and rejected populism in favor of common law and republic style representation.

Honestly, I wish people would stop calling the US of 18th-earth 19th century a "democracy," because it was no such thing. Democracy is the name of the evil crony-capitalist fascist state that it is today. Both in theory and in practice Democracy has failed miserably to curb the authoritarian tendencies of government. It cripples economies, swells deficits, creates conflict, and claims a moral high-ground on the back of it's myriad voters, many of whom don't even agree with their state's actions.

If Egypt is going to successfully extricate itself from their economic plight, they'll need to completely reject the notion that Democracy should be their stated goal.
Adunh Slavy
#44 - 2013-07-05 19:20:01 UTC
Tumahub wrote:

If Egypt is going to successfully extricate itself from their economic plight, they'll need to completely reject the notion that Democracy should be their stated goal.


Quite true. Franklin said it well, "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for lunch." Another nice way of saying it is, commonly termed Social Justice.

What Egypt, and the rest of us for that matter, should aim for is equality under the law, regardless of that law being sharia or something more akin to what we in the west consider the natural law as expressed by the Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, Rights of Man. Government should have no right that an individual does not have. If government wants maximum freedom, then so should its subjects, anything else is a road to tyranny.

And just cause I know how these conversations on Eve forums go ...

If you think rights are just temporary privileges, as stated by the late George Carlin, then you admit you are a slave or a wanna be slave owner. If the former, time to get rid of some chains. If the later, oh wait, no one admits to that, instead they talk about social justice.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#45 - 2013-08-14 14:53:38 UTC
And in the current unrest in Egypt, a British Cameraman has been killed in the clearing of pro Islamist protesters.

Death toll is over 120 and rising, this is going to get ugly...

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#46 - 2013-08-14 18:09:34 UTC
Interesting thread, wish more threads regarding these particular topics were like this one instead of being filled with slander, libel and "ad hominem" attacks. Shocked

Civilized people explaining their points of views in a descriptive manner while being polite and answering questions with their opinions.

(goes back to watch my own National Assembly members shouting slurs, insults and death threats in live National TV to members of the opposition)

Cry

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
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