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Eve Devs being moved to try and rescue Dust.

First post
Author
Paul Castrin
Legio XX Valeria Victrix
#121 - 2013-07-04 16:58:18 UTC
Chamile Eonic wrote:
Sebastien Starstrider wrote:
uh... from the quotes you had, it doesn't sound like the 'pet project' is in trouble. it sounds like it's doing great and they want to capitalize on that success?


I have no idea how much money CCP are making from the game, but its easy enough to see how many people are playing

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

It peaked out at about 8000 concurrent players and dropped as low as 4000 with a small increase recently. these are small numbers for a free to play game.

Reviews have been pretty terrible so far. Most of the positive ones talk more about potential than what the game is today. Its possible the game could be OK one day, it just sucks seeing Eve funds sucked out even more to prop Dust up until/if it becomes profitable.


Anybody here remember when EVE had only 5000 players on at most? I do.

I also don't recall reviews being very kind, actually I don't think anyone reviewed it at all the first couple of years.

Potential is a good thing regardless of where Dust is at now in it's cycle. Look around here for proof.

Peace.

Cool
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-07-04 21:08:03 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:
CCP has done nothing up to his point, and has shown nothing coming on the near horizon, that is going to change the fact that it is baffling, frustrating, and annoying for non-EvE players to get into, and it offers no discernible reward in return for the effort demanded by its stupidly high learning curve and punishing grind.


Heck, it's even baffling for an EvE player to get into. Maybe if the Xbox One launched bundled with MS Office then Dustbin 514 might have a chance on that console.

If I fire up a console game on my TV I'm not looking for a deep, intellectual, long term planning, slow burning game. I'm looking to kill half an hour with something fun and pointless. And even though I have the ps3 and xbox360 I find myself doing that on my tablet far more often these days.

Dust is a pure pay2win eve clone set on the ground. It contains many of the same features that require being a Sperglord to succeed, without any of the rewards you could receive for being the same in EvE (as you have said).

And on top of that I'm competing with others mostly through the size of my wallet -- I do that enough in RL as is, I'm not looking for that type of game play in my escapism.

Arduemont
The State of War.
#123 - 2013-07-05 12:19:52 UTC
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Dear CCP,

You can't polish a turd.

Of course you can.

The result won't be pretty, though.
Really, it won't...


You never watch the myth busters episode on this? At the end you really couldn't tell that it was a turd. It looked like a precious stone. There's a message there somewhere...

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#124 - 2013-07-05 12:35:10 UTC
This is one of the classic mistakes a company makes, just throwing more people at a project or product development that has little to no longterm viability -- and yes, this will end badly.

"Badly" being a relative term when the pink slips arrive.


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2013-07-05 12:58:09 UTC
Clair Bear wrote:
And on top of that I'm competing with others mostly through the size of my wallet -- I do that enough in RL as is, I'm not looking for that type of game play in my escapism.



Sum of it.

F2P or what it really is P2W is a death to a game. It doesn't expect much, won't over much, but it can operate for pennies and stay around. It caters to whales (and what will become of them, dinosaurs), who want something special for their dime. The results are predictable as gamers see it in the 100001 F2P/P2W games out there.

BF3 can get away with DLC as well as EvE, as both have a built in community that's put too much time into the franchise to just leave. A new game doesn't have that backbone. If it's not successful at release, there's no going back, it's dead. MMOs are cruel for this, RIFT and SWTOR are examples of over 100 million dollars down the drain. What they offered wasn't enough to keep players playing (bottom line in games).

I don't play DUST not because it wouldn't be interesting to try it out, but I haven't had a console since '78, and have no interest to start today. Very niched offering. And frankly, I played BF2142 and that memory is special (most fun I ever had in a game), to play something similar would make that vanish, to be replaced by all the current issues and gripes. Want to remember it as I left it, a couple days after that DICE competition (like the day I left EQII after that nasty avatar guild got it's due). A fine memory to always remember.

DUST like EvE needs a larger audience. Xbox, PS4 and PC. And not be P2W. We're not all whales, we'll pay our keep, but despise being nickel and dimed to play.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Rebson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2013-07-05 13:05:42 UTC
I think PC version would have make more sense.

I would probably play it on PC , ALT-TAB between EVE and Dust would have been fun.
Anslo
Scope Works
#127 - 2013-07-05 13:08:06 UTC
Chamile Eonic wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Just to clarify something: Just because we're hiring into Dust doesn't affect the total number of slots working on EVE. If anyone jumps to another project, that slot will be re-hired (Fozzie was a re-hire for a Dust transfer for example).

The tl;dr is that the expansions will continue churning at an unchanged pace.

Soundwave out


I bet it keeps you up at night; thinking about how much more you could have done with Eve if you had all the resources they used on Dust.

What are the top 5 things you would have used the extra resources to add to eve in the last 3/4 years?


Did you see the mic being dropped?

That means your goading is now irrelevant.

Biomass.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#128 - 2013-07-05 13:24:15 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Dear CCP,

You can't polish a turd.


Sorry but the infallible benchmark of all things says you can....

Mythbusters - polishing a turd

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Zagdul
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2013-07-05 14:00:58 UTC
Dust will do fine. It's reception has been luke warm lately, but I can only imagine how much other developers are investing in counter reviews just to keep it below their blockbuster titles.

Dust is actually a decent games with a lot of rough edges, but for a first time AAA title, it's got the foundation to be one of the most successful out there and I genuinely believe that in time, it will become one of the premiere FPS's on the market.

At this point, anyone calling for Dust's head is pretty short sighted and ignorant. CCP Branching out to other mediums and reinforcing Dust, the EVE VR and the mobile games/apps success will mean good things for EVE long term. Not being able to see this means you are closed minded and need to stop treating CCP as your girlfriend who is not allowed to play the field.

Get a grip.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2013-07-05 14:41:43 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Dust is actually a decent games with a lot of rough edges, but for a first time AAA title


BF2142 was AAA. DUST is not.

It becomes an AAA title when it has the numbers to prove it; it has market presence; people know it by name; and it has all the bells and whistles a studio can throw at it to compete with likewise games of the genre. DUST would have to compete with CoD and BF3 and offer equal or better features to be considered AAA. You're talking about close to 100 million dollar development games.

It's an AA title so far.

Bringing in the EA guy it could get there, though (and once it's multiplatform -- have to have all three now to compete).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-07-05 15:27:41 UTC
Paul Castrin wrote:
Chamile Eonic wrote:
Sebastien Starstrider wrote:
uh... from the quotes you had, it doesn't sound like the 'pet project' is in trouble. it sounds like it's doing great and they want to capitalize on that success?


I have no idea how much money CCP are making from the game, but its easy enough to see how many people are playing

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

It peaked out at about 8000 concurrent players and dropped as low as 4000 with a small increase recently. these are small numbers for a free to play game.

Reviews have been pretty terrible so far. Most of the positive ones talk more about potential than what the game is today. Its possible the game could be OK one day, it just sucks seeing Eve funds sucked out even more to prop Dust up until/if it becomes profitable.


Anybody here remember when EVE had only 5000 players on at most? I do.

I also don't recall reviews being very kind, actually I don't think anyone reviewed it at all the first couple of years.

Potential is a good thing regardless of where Dust is at now in it's cycle. Look around here for proof.

Peace.

Cool


EVE is unique of itself whereas dust is a poorly done FPS whose micro-transaction system, poor mechanics, and little returns on time invested makes it bad.
StarMage Yoma
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-07-05 16:09:18 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Chamile Eonic wrote:
Sebastien Starstrider wrote:
uh... from the quotes you had, it doesn't sound like the 'pet project' is in trouble. it sounds like it's doing great and they want to capitalize on that success?


I have no idea how much money CCP are making from the game, but its easy enough to see how many people are playing

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

It peaked out at about 8000 concurrent players and dropped as low as 4000 with a small increase recently. these are small numbers for a free to play game.

Reviews have been pretty terrible so far. Most of the positive ones talk more about potential than what the game is today. Its possible the game could be OK one day, it just sucks seeing Eve funds sucked out even more to prop Dust up until/if it becomes profitable.


I've been pretty bearish on Dust since its release and I see no reason to change that opinion. I understand that CCP will give it some time, but I doubt they'll ever recover the money they spent on it.

I hope they haven't sunk so much money into it that they'll have trouble re: Eve's development.



I believe they made the money they spent on it already, solely from being "exclusive" title. You figure out the rest.
Katsumoto Moliko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2013-07-05 16:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsumoto Moliko
Dust is precisely what it was back in the day: a pet project.

Honestly, I think the better idea would be to keep the talented developers working on EVE, and transfer some of the newer developers to work on DUST. Straight

The reason being is that EVE developers are used to developing for EVE: that entails MMO mechanics, working with the specific game engine, etc. There is a world of difference between an FPS and an MMO. With one team learning the ropes and gaining experience specific to shooters, and the dedicated (and experienced) EVE team keeping us happy, CCP can save themselves a lot of trouble in the future.

Blizzard could justify pulling the A team off of WoW because they were MMO developers working on another MMO. CCP needs to dedicate a special team for building and maintaining an FPS, because while said developers are undeniably talented at developing MMO's, MMOs are hardly similar to shooters.

Think of it as a team of specialized mansion builders trying to build a hospital. Sure, you CAN have them build a hospital, but they will focus more on aesthetics than practicability, space constraints, medical facility requirements, etc. whereas a hospital team will probably build it a lot more efficiently, the final product will operate much more smoothly, and they will probably be far better at maintaining it, too. Blink

EDIT: I wouldn't mind them doing more work on EVR, if anything. That is amazing on its own two feet, imagine what it can do with some TLC!
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-07-05 17:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Ace Uoweme wrote:
RIFT and SWTOR are examples of over 100 million dollars down the drain. What they offered wasn't enough to keep players playing (bottom line in games).


FYI SWTOR is doing just fine as F2P, as are many games. You speak with so much authority on subjecst about which you seem to know so very little.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2013-07-05 17:15:05 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
RIFT and SWTOR are examples of over 100 million dollars down the drain. What they offered wasn't enough to keep players playing (bottom line in games).


FYI SWTOR is doing just fine as F2P, as are many games. You speak with so much authority on subjecst about which you seem to know so very little.


SWTOR is dead. You're used to playing dead games and can't see otherwise.

SWTOR wasn't a sandbox game. It's a typical George Lucas game that gets botched, just like SWG (which I warned folks about, because he interferes with development...NGE for example. People blamed SOE over it, but they are only licensed to have made it, Lucas had full control in what he wanted presented. Same with SWTOR, and only recently did he sell off the rights. DICE now has gotten the contract).

Yeah, I do know something about these games.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Udonor
Doomheim
#136 - 2013-07-06 03:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Heh if you don't worry about progress and content of next 1-2 years then CCP personnel changes mean nothing. CCP is taking the long view that EVE and DUST will be around for at least 10 more years.

But focusing on that next 6-18 months yeah CCP personnel policy effect EVE negatively without question.
Eh if people are burned out work on EVE is one thing. But pressured or enticed to move to DUST is another.

New hires take weeks to become productive in EVE even if they worked EVE before (laid off in big roll back couple years ago) and it can be a couple months if they are true MMO rookies and have no familiarity with CCP development environment.

So really it would be better for EVE if DUST got the new hires.

And since DUST is still sort of clueless as to where its going and how it wil get there...new hire can be absorbed more organically as the future becomes more clear.

But I am sure that CCP is making personnel moves more with an eye to settling concerns of DUST investors. To the uninformed moving successful personnel with history of success in one enterprise to an ailing enterprise seems like moving success itself.

Although that effect is delayed and not always true due to changes in skill sets, I suppose in the longer run there is some truth to idea of picking from a pool of people who have already proven they can be MMO succesful. One big conceptual change from EVE to DUST is that EVE ignores LCOs as obstructions to combat weapon fire whereas its the central idea to DUST. So lots DUST is lots more complex tactically and cannot use EVE shortcuts to efficiency.
Steirmann
Interstellar Machines
#137 - 2013-07-06 03:47:46 UTC
Spend a lot of time and money customising your fit - check

Get shot in the back or ganked by mega-corps as soon as you step out the door - check

Realise that none of it matters since everything is already controlled by the same cliques of players that have been in control for years - check.

EVE players should love it.
Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
#138 - 2013-07-07 10:22:11 UTC
Paul Castrin wrote:


Anybody here remember when EVE had only 5000 players on at most? I do.

I also don't recall reviews being very kind, actually I don't think anyone reviewed it at all the first couple of years.

Potential is a good thing regardless of where Dust is at now in it's cycle. Look around here for proof.

Peace.

Cool


Apples and Oranges.

Eve was pretty much the only space sim back when there were very few MMOs. It was unique in its single server universe, economy, and allowing the meta game to happen. It was a true niche game.

Over the years there has been pretty much zero competition within CCPs niche. Even today there are no MMO space sims that have tried to recreate a living universe. This has allowed CCP to make many mistakes that would really have cost devs in other areas.

Dust is going head to head with the biggest and richest players in the market. They have the talent, money and brands. To make matters worse CCP is known for its SOON tm. CCP has never been a dev that can get content out the door quickly. And to make them even worse currently Dust is a pretty crappy FPS.

CCP say don't worry we will add content. Who here really thinks that CCP will be able to produce content that will not only keep up as the battlefield franchise release battlefield 4, 5, 6 etc.? but also catch up/
Zifrian
FAYN Industries
Dark Side of the Eclipse
#139 - 2013-07-07 11:25:04 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Dear CCP,

You can't polish a turd.

But you *can*...it just takes a lot of work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

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