Wormholes

Hey i like wormhole space to, hence me living here but many people agree that C6 wormhole pvp is stale/dead for the most part. I'm not even talking about low class wormholes because that works fine IMO.

I don't see anything wrong with talking with you guys about how things could be improved. The more we tell CCP that everything is fine, the more chance there is of us being here 2 years down the line without seeing any improvements and content adding to W-space.

Look man, I wasn't trolling you. I just know you c5/6 guys like to cram people into your systems like sardines. You've got a lot of isk invested up there and want to protect it.

I've lived in the C5 environment. Hated it. Hated spending days looking for something to kill. Hated being one of too many. It's boring. It's political.

Seriously, you're going to laugh. I'm in a corp that up until last month was only 3 people + alts. Still, for our size, we get lots of pew. Sometimes, 2 to 1 against us and we still come out on top. Playing Ride of the Valkyrie over TS in route to fights we're sure we're gonna die and yelling "Fck yeah we made it!" when we don't. It's the most fun I've had in w-space. We've got open invitations to larger and higher end w-space alliances. But we don't do it because we're having fun! Consider that.

Why do you think TL split and half of them moved to a C2 and the rest of TL in C5 space is still breaking up?

Guys, from the response that this thread has already, this is a valid topic for debate. So to let this thread live please keep the discussion civilized. To many posts are locked by the ISD's these days


Also, why don't you post with your main Mr. Kidd ?

These sound wonderful.

CCP should add tech 3 BS {balanced not OP like T3 cruisers} to spice things up.

Just a note because I saw it crop up in a bunch of posts. I am not saying that there isn't enough pvp in wh's or the mechanics or quality of the fights are not good. Like it or not, there is a limit of how much you can actually blob in wh space (although lately big fights are becoming more prelevant, I digress as this is not what the discussion is about). But it just seems all the fighting in WH space is done for the fun of it only, and that is in my opinion a broken mechanic. Imagine null space without sov, all of it just being npc space (I don't want sov in wh space, I am just drawing a comparison). There has to be a way where you actually can profit from your pvp if you are relatively better at it that the other wh dwellers, just like null sec. The core of this game is you risk your things to get rewarded with something else. This is completely non existent in WH pvp.

For example the trouble of going through evictions is mind boggling. Take huge risks, stop all your activities, find multiple entrances and exits to your hole, haul a bunch of ships in, without the other side knowing and then have hole control for 24/7 for a couple of days at least (if you are lucky). And mostly all you get is blue balls, and your enemies self destructing expensive ships in your face. After the recent patch you can't even get the items from the hangers. In null you have to fight for the right to live in a particular space, in WH you don't, you can stay there forever without pvping. If we just change a small thing it can lead to a whole new level of pvp. If evictions become at least a little bit profitable, we can have more quality pvp than just roaming gangs and staged fights.

I know I repeated some ideas in the last paragraph, but i thought it needed some clarifying. I just don't want this topic to devolve about wh pvp problems in general.

Yeah but as it's unlikely that a few guys on a forum are going to change the natural human behavior/instincts of people in w-space, the only people who can effectively make a change are CCP.

Mr Kidd's post nailed it.

There are people who won't go out and hunt. That's fine, there are other ways to shoot them.
There are people who won't take bait. That's also fine, there are other ways to shoot them too.
Then there are people who log out at the sign of probes in their system. Again, there are ways to shoot them.

What you get out of W-space depends on what you put into it. If you expect to wander around in a large group and have instant-PvP at your fingertips at any moment you want it, then you aren't looking for life in W-space. Only if you're willing to put in the time and effort to hunt your prey will you get the kills.

Life here isn't about instant gratification. It's about the hunt. Instant gratification is in Low or Null ... Cyno in a cap at a belt. You'll draw PvP to you like flies to a dog turd.

I am sorry but Mr. kidds argument isn't logical. So we should all leave c5-c6 space to go live in c2's, and shoot itty 5's and drakes? I had a lot of good fights for the wh hs exit, but they are definitely not high quality fights, simply because it is easy just to find one later. As I said before twice, I am not saying that there is a lack of pvp, just that all of it is done purely for fun. There are no extra rewards for your better skills and taking extra risk. A carebear in wh space is richer than someone that pvp's.

In null everybody fights to keep their space, they might have renters, but they pay for the alliance to stay there. No one is staying in null without fighting (or someone fighting for him). Null space was just as an example. At the core of it there is very low to zero reward to you taking extra risks in WH, especially for PVP, which in my opinion is a very weak mechanic for a game like EVE.

In game PVP drivers are important, also as I said a simple moon change, got us the biggest war we saw in EVE in years. Are you telling me this isn't better? PVP drivers also break alliances and blues, as everyone should be trying to secure the biggest piece of pie they can get. Now blues, just stay blue because there is no reason not to blue. EVE is about winning not small fights. Don't get me wrong, small fights are fun as ****, but in WH space there is no "winning" because there is no pie for pvping. Yes i ******* love pie. If we can maybe make the ships not destructible in poses pvper's can have some pie (faction ships and t3's are tasty), or some other solutions that maybe smarter people can figure out. So please let's try to address this issue, and not something like small pvp is leet (it is but that is not the issue) and it's the big alliances fault (it is somewhat, but how will it be solved). Adding pvp drivers and incentives (imo) only adds to the experience.

I fuel my poses with our pew. No really. A 5bil isk orca kill kept us fueled for 2 months....2bil of it dropped. A 4bil isk farming shiney ship added another month. Etc etc etc. But then we're not an operation that needs to feed +50 mouths. See the recurring theme?

I would guess that what is being asked for here is the ability to ransom/pillage juicy systems ripe with easy rich targets....come on, everyone knows what "pew for profit" means. I'm pretty sure hardcore c5/6 dwellers ran all those guys out of C5/6 space and now noone wants to live there who can't field a +50 man fleet. And those that remain are pretty small shops from what I've seen not worth the time or effort to bash except for spite.

TL was a ripe target only after a +100man fleet showed up. But dividing whatever was looted by 100, I'm sure is no where near "profitable".....lets see....I just spent a week stuck in this hole gauging my eyes out for stimulation as we bashed all the poses and all I got was 150 - 300mil......yeah....profit.

So if the tough outfits that get rolled aren't profitable because of the investment needed to roll them then the only thing left is big carebear outfits who aren't prepared to pew......that's "pew for profit" in Eve. C5/6 alliances are victims of their own success. You guys wanted that space all to yourselves. I'm not seeing much of a reason for CCP to get involved when the predator has over hunted its range.

The next thing we're going to hear from Joan is w-space needs to be more like null...wait...she already said that, "pew for profit like nullsec"....local Joan? You want local too? How about moon goo? Force projection with jump bridges? Titans perhaps?

This is an interesting fact about null.....large alliances only exist because of moon-goo and force projection, both of which w-space lacks. It allows those alliances to maintain vast swaths of space that require relatively few people when compared to w-space. Try having +50 people in every system that a null alliance hold just like the big w-space alliances have to maintain for one system....most of null is empty. And the more I think about it the more I conclude that big w-space alliances have outgrown w-space because of a lack of both. There's no moon-goo. And you can't effectively project a sizable force more than a few systems away.

The fact is, there are still plenty of operations out there in lower end space where alliances have set up shop for years to get their bear on. But noone wants to oust them. Sure, they're ripe targets with lots of riches....but they're not easy targets because they have caps and noone else will. Which is ironic.

Rek, if it seems like I'm picking on you....I kind of am but, not really I just think what you want CCP to do to make possible the kind of gameplay you want is exactly the reasons why a lot of us are in w-space and not null. But moreso I'm picking on Joan atm.

Major conflict is prevented by out of control blue balling.

If everyone stopped evicting farmers there would be much more targets
If people stopped blue balling there would be lots more evictions