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[Odyssey 1.1] Skill group name changes

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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#141 - 2013-07-04 06:25:57 UTC
I hope you can give us a SDE of the final structure before it actually goes live so we can make the needed changes...

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Radgette
EVE Irn Bru Distribution
#142 - 2013-07-04 06:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Radgette
Not only does this confuse matters, some of the names just sound really dumb.

Spaceship Command is much better than piloting don't change it. Also Missile Launcher Operation is a much better name.

This is almost as stupid as when you changed Akemons 8% armoUr implant to a Noble Upgrades as if it was common and normal.

The current skill groups are separated in the most part by what attributes you need to train them.

This change completely jumbles that up and lumps per/will skills in the same sub section as int/mem.

You might not be "dumbing" the game down by changing all these names BUT and this is a big BUT your taking all the flavour out of it.

The idiosyncracies and weird stuff ADDs to the game not detracts and taking 2minutes to read the "show info" tab if you dont know what a skill does is a GOOD thing
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#143 - 2013-07-04 06:45:44 UTC
"You are about to become what all men should fear. You will roam the heavens, commanding the most powerful machines ever built."

*commanding* them machines, screw piloting -.-

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort
#144 - 2013-07-04 07:02:04 UTC
I may be in the distinct minority here, hell probably am,

Do you really hate your long time subscribers this much? Alot of the changes you have done in the last year year and a half have been pretty good, but the renaming of stuff is getting a bit nuts. The game is literally becoming more confuseing because alot of us have learned to expect thiss name, and/or this skill to be here under this group. The undock button to be on this section of the screen ect. You are literally going agianst in some peoples cases 10 years of muscle memory.

If you want to reorganize some of the stuff thats clearly in the wrong category ./ make new ones and move a few skill in there the clean up the skill tree okay, but renaming skills and categories is so MEH.

I know this is a big whine but, this time around i felt like sharing.


EDIT: Also agreeing 100% Spaceship Piloting sounds incredibly gay, like even a dude from san fransico that was EXTREMELY flamboyant would be like, oh you got to be kidding me. Stick with Spaceship Command, which sounds authoritative
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#145 - 2013-07-04 07:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
- Spaceship Piloting sounds lame. Revert it to Spaceship Command.

- Leave Targeting skill as is and rename Multitasking > Adv. Targeting.
- Leave Engineering and Electronics skills as is.
+ Nanite Control > Neurotoxin Control is a reasonable change.
Having base skill of a group same name as group name makes it easy to understand for new players.

* Name of Guided Missile Precision skill makes no sense anymore because of recent changes.
Suggestion: Rename it to either Missile Precision or Missile Detonation Precision (the latter makes it easy to understand function of this skill).
* Also Armor Honeycombing skill sounds silly and not sci-fi-ish while Armor (Plating) Management/Distribution will be much better imo. Or better Armor Upgrades (we dont have that skill yet, but we have electronics, energy grid, shield, hull, mining, weapon upgrades).

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#146 - 2013-07-04 07:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander

  • Armor - Seems good, but how about renaming it "Armor and Hull Systems".
  • Electronic System - How about renaming it "Electronic Systems" and leaving the "Electronics" skill alone. Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration seems out of place here; put all 3 reconfig skills into "Engineering Systems" see below.
  • Engineering - How about renaming it "Engineering Systems" and leaving the Engineering skill alone.
  • Missiles - How about renaming it "Missile Weapon Systems".
  • Neural Enhancement - I like!
  • Production - How about renaming it "Manufacturing". One produces movies, not spaceships.
  • Resource Processing - How about renaming it "Material Processing"
  • Ship Modification - I don't like subsystems being in this group.
  • Scanning - How about renaming it "Exploration". I don't like the planet skills moving here; keep them on their own, or move them into manufacturing (see above).
  • Science - How about renaming it "Research" or "Research and Technology".
  • Shields - How about renaming it "Shield Systems"
  • Spaceship Piloting - PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T RENAME IT THIS!
  • Targeting - How about renaming it "Targeting Systems".


I'd be tempted to rename "Gunnery" group to "Turret Weapon Systems".

Note the common usage of the word "Systems" throughout.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#147 - 2013-07-04 07:14:30 UTC
I would say... it's logical

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Nix Anteris
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#148 - 2013-07-04 07:20:45 UTC
Missiles -> Missile Command

Have to chime in with the resounding chorus of "If it aint broke, don't fix it". You're trying to make it more newbie friendly, and at the same time confusing your existing players. Not really a good trade-off in my opinion.

If it's really going ahead, agree with most of the above.


  • Keep Spaceship Command
  • Keep Missile Launcher Operation
  • Keep PI skills together
  • Keep Subsystems in their own group
  • Electronics -> Electronic Warfare makes more sense.
  • Pick better names for targeting and multitasking
  • Rename Biology as people are suggesting
  • Don't mix up skills with different attribute requirements - this adds much more confusion.
Legion40k
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-07-04 07:30:32 UTC
IMO, Multiple Targeting is gonna get confused with Multitasking a bit..maybe a little differently worded such as Target Management and Adv. Target Management.

And Spaceship Piloting sounds 'meh' compared to Spaceship Command > why change this?

Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand

Armor Honeycombing..... > Armor Plating Compensation/Efficiency??? im unsure on this one, it's just weird to begin with Lol

thats about it really :s
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#150 - 2013-07-04 07:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Legion40k wrote:
Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand

Guided Missile Precision -> Detonation Radius Control
Target Navigation Prediction ->Detonation Velocity Control

Missile Projection -> Missile Velocity Control
Missile Bombardment -> Missile Flight Time Control
Warhead Upgrades -> Warhead Yield Enhancement (this is really an advanced skill, not a basic one, and really should have some sort of name to reflect that).
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#151 - 2013-07-04 07:44:09 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Legion40k wrote:
Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand

Guided Missile Precision -> Detonation Radius Control
Target Navigation Prediction ->Detonation Velocity Control

Missile Projection -> Missile Velocity Control
Missile Bombardment -> Missile Flight Time Control
Warhead Upgrades -> Detonation Damage Yield

While it is new player friendly it breaks sci-fi game immersion at the same time imo. Putting skill effects into names (ex. suggested CPU management / PG management) will make game bland.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#152 - 2013-07-04 07:45:24 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Isara Aulx-Gao wrote:
Whoa never change a running system.
why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills??
This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names.

Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can´t fly a Titan in 5 Days.

NO Mainstream ****


Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
More dumbing down it seems. You asked for advice about certificates and come back with this **** when no one to my knowledge has ever complained about the skill names or descriptions.

I do not want eve to be welcoming and easy to understand for noobs. The fact that it is hard to understand and requires some intellect is where we the community get our quality control from.

This is not hello ******* kitty online. The day it starts to resemble it is the day you will lose your hardcore player base. We eve players are a cut above the players of other mmos, were all elite players; even the noobs that decide to stick with eve because it's unique and beautiful and hard to master.



Next time just type:

SBVP

(Standard Bitter Vet Post)



Thanks for trolling and contributing absolutely nothing to the debate. +1

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-07-04 07:45:55 UTC
First off I like the new changes!

but here is a few remarks

* SpaceShip Piloting sounds wrong ... Spaceship Command just sounds better and is i think still better name?

* Why not rename biology that skill name is weird?

* PI skills i would still recomend that they are keep separated (its easer to find them that way)

* im not convinced that putting subsystem in to spaceship piloting ... it sounds good but that group is already LARGE and putting in an additional 20 skills in it isn't making it bigger instead I suggest that you move the strategic cruiser skills to the Subsystem group and renaming it to something better.

* Electronic / Mecanical/ are the name change really necessary ?

*How about skill stats, now that the skills get moved around are they going to get there stats (int,Per,Wis, etc) updated to be same in the entire group?



Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#154 - 2013-07-04 07:58:48 UTC
Just stopping by to pitch in:

Please keep Spaceship Command.
We don't actually _pilot_ a ship, except from maybe a frigate. We command it / the crew to "warp to", "align" and they make it so. That's commanding a spaceship!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#155 - 2013-07-04 08:02:45 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

  • Armor - Seems good, but how about renaming it "Armor and Hull Systems".
  • Electronic System - How about renaming it "Electronic Systems" and leaving the "Electronics" skill alone. Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration seems out of place here; put all 3 reconfig skills into "Engineering Systems" see below.
  • Engineering - How about renaming it "Engineering Systems" and leaving the Engineering skill alone.
  • Missiles - How about renaming it "Missile Weapon Systems".
  • Neural Enhancement - I like!
  • Production - How about renaming it "Manufacturing". One produces movies, not spaceships.
  • Resource Processing - How about renaming it "Material Processing"
  • Ship Modification - I don't like subsystems being in this group.
  • Scanning - How about renaming it "Exploration". I don't like the planet skills moving here; keep them on their own, or move them into manufacturing (see above).
  • Science - How about renaming it "Research" or "Research and Technology".
  • Shields - How about renaming it "Shield Systems"
  • Spaceship Piloting - PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T RENAME IT THIS!
  • Targeting - How about renaming it "Targeting Systems".


I'd be tempted to rename "Gunnery" group to "Turret Weapon Systems".

Note the common usage of the word "Systems" throughout.


+1 anything that keeps the sci fi flavour is a good thing.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Mwaheed S0n
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-07-04 08:06:40 UTC
I also vote for keeping Spaceship Command.

I also cringe at seeing the Planetary Interaction skills mixed across groups even though two of them are technically "scanning" skills, but they really should stay in their own group.

+1 to Tau Cabalander's suggestions for naming schemes and placement as well.

o7
anishamora
Atelierele Grivita
#157 - 2013-07-04 08:09:51 UTC
I'll add what most people already pointed out, maybe CPP will get the drift:

- "Spaceship Piloting" is unanimously considered gay. We understand that you don't want to give us a crew per-se, but we're still spaceship commanders goddamnit!

- PI stuff should remain in its own group especially if at some point (hopefully) you'll expand more on this area

- Subsystems should remain in their own group, newb-friendliness is not a good enough reason, T3 stuff is not newb stuff.

- Electronics as "CPU management" is bad and doesn't make any sense anymore as pre-requisite for several skills.
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#158 - 2013-07-04 08:16:06 UTC
For most of the skill groups, the group seemed to be named after a single base skill that was a pre-req for most of the other skills in the group. While there is some opportunity for confusion, this always made perfect sense to me. So I'm not in favour of general renaming of these base skills or the groups.

That said, there's certainly room to split out some of the skills into new groups. Electronic Warfare and Jury Rigging come to mind.

I'd also support splitting the R&D "science" skills out from the rest, maybe under "Research" since that seems to be a base skill for most of them.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#159 - 2013-07-04 08:27:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Spaceship Piloting: is the old Spaceship Command group, no change except with the name.

That's ... well, i can't find a PC word for it. Just name it "Pony Riding" if you're going to change the current name, which is absolutely okey as it is.
joan scholar
Doomheim
#160 - 2013-07-04 08:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: joan scholar
changing the names is not gonna help. the whole skill tree system needs a overhaul.

the current system is old and outdated and a hindrance for new players.

if you really want to "clean up" skills revamp the whole system. something like Dust514 skills tree would be much better and less confusing. skill trees in any game should really have a hierarchy system. you should not have to search a module to see which skill you need to train for it.

this looks so much better IMO, now i dont mean it should look exactly the same because this was designed for controllers in mind.

Dust 514 Skill Tree

yeah its a lot of work to re design a UI but if you really want to do it, do it right the first time.

Edit: was thinking more along the lines of the certificate system. the certificate UI is more what a skill tree should look like.

Certificate Planner