These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Stealth Strategic Cruisers

Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-07-03 16:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Marc Callan wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:

Please explain how its nature as an alt stops a covops being casually exploded by the target it's supposed to be tackling, or simply by the Sleepers.


The probing alt isn't there to land tackle or engage with hostiles; the probing alt's only job is to locate stuff for the main pilot to mix it up with. Except when it's transiting systems, or in the process of dropping probes, the probing alt is best advised to keep its cloak on and make like a hole in the void.


Ah, I see. The covops scout probes the target, and you warp your main in a gank ship to the victim... who then promptly warps off after seeing the incoming gank ship on dscan. Hmmm. Maybe the covops should have hero-tackled it in the first place? But it has no tank and would just die immediately.

If only there was a tanky tackler capable of probing and covops-cloaking.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#22 - 2013-07-03 17:25:02 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:

Please explain how its nature as an alt stops a covops being casually exploded by the target it's supposed to be tackling, or simply by the Sleepers.


The probing alt isn't there to land tackle or engage with hostiles; the probing alt's only job is to locate stuff for the main pilot to mix it up with. Except when it's transiting systems, or in the process of dropping probes, the probing alt is best advised to keep its cloak on and make like a hole in the void.


Ah, I see. The covops scout probes the target, and you warp your main in a gank ship to the victim... who then promptly warps off after seeing the incoming gank ship on dscan. Hmmm. Maybe the covops should have hero-tackled it in the first place? But it has no tank and would just die immediately.

If only there was a tanky tackler capable of probing and covops-cloaking.


you realize that it takes less than 30 or so seconds to travel, and then land on a target? The way most people will run from you is if they see the probes. Which shockingly- don't cloak.

There is no loki that can have 500 DPS with 200K ehp, cloak, and probe. Stop pulling numbers out of thin air.

Also a proteus cannot achieve those numbers as well.

Tech three cruisers have been outclassed for some time. As i have said before, you can have a much large target selection with the use of a cheaper- more effective ship. I am not saying that you will never be able to kill things in a tech 3, but I am saying that when it comes to hunting worm hole space, you are choosing a very sub optimal platform.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-07-03 22:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Chessur wrote:
you realize that it takes less than 30 or so seconds to travel, and then land on a target? The way most people will run from you is if they see the probes. Which shockingly- don't cloak.

There is no loki that can have 500 DPS with 200K ehp, cloak, and probe. Stop pulling numbers out of thin air.

Also a proteus cannot achieve those numbers as well.

Tech three cruisers have been outclassed for some time. As i have said before, you can have a much large target selection with the use of a cheaper- more effective ship. I am not saying that you will never be able to kill things in a tech 3, but I am saying that when it comes to hunting worm hole space, you are choosing a very sub optimal platform.


You don't need to probe targets in anomalies. Even when you do, your probes should be visible for a single scan only, and certainly less time than your ship would be on scan for.

I never mentioned a 500 DPS, 200k EHP Loki. You pulled that, er, "out of thin air"...

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship has a larger target selection than a covops and another ship. It's more expensive, sure, but you get what you pay for.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#24 - 2013-07-03 23:14:52 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:
you realize that it takes less than 30 or so seconds to travel, and then land on a target? The way most people will run from you is if they see the probes. Which shockingly- don't cloak.

There is no loki that can have 500 DPS with 200K ehp, cloak, and probe. Stop pulling numbers out of thin air.

Also a proteus cannot achieve those numbers as well.

Tech three cruisers have been outclassed for some time. As i have said before, you can have a much large target selection with the use of a cheaper- more effective ship. I am not saying that you will never be able to kill things in a tech 3, but I am saying that when it comes to hunting worm hole space, you are choosing a very sub optimal platform.


You don't need to probe targets in anomalies. Even when you do, your probes should be visible for a single scan only, and certainly less time than your ship would be on scan for.

I never mentioned a 500 DPS, 200k EHP Loki. You pulled that, er, "out of thin air"...

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship has a larger target selection than a covops and another ship. It's more expensive, sure, but you get what you pay for.


I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-07-03 23:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Chessur wrote:
I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki


The only person talking about Lokis is you. I never mentioned them.

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship can engage more ships than covops and another ship. To argue otherwise is to argue that a covops is gankier and tankier than a cloaky proby Proteus, and that's just silly. Lol
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#26 - 2013-07-03 23:38:36 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:
I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki


The only person talking about Lokis is you. I never mentioned them.

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship can engage more ships than covops and another ship. To argue otherwise is to argue that a covops is gankier and tankier than a cloaky proby Proteus, and that's just silly. Lol


I am going to argue otherwise. I will take a faster ship that is able to project damage, over a slow super short ranged piece of garbage any day. The fact that you cannot see the obvious downsides to using a ship that struggles to break 1k/s is breathtaking. You realize that even though i am choosing just one ship- I will still have the ability to engage much larger groups of people, and as I have said before have a much larger target selection.

The only thing your proteus is good for, is killing defenseless ships. Like noctis, or perhaps a barge or two. There is no way you could deal with even a small handful of ships while operating your proposed Proteus. If you are caught in a hostile worm hole, the enemy corp will start warping in more ships. because you are in scram web range, you cannot run- and if you cannot break the tank of the ship your fighting- then your going to die a horrible death. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much EHP or how great of a tank you have, because the enemy will always bring more.
Flandre Scarlette
Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#27 - 2013-07-04 03:59:59 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Chessur wrote:
As some advice- don't fly a stealth T3. Proteus can kind of do it... barely. Honestly they are really not worth it. So many other ships can get the job done better, have a larger target selection, and are cheaper. Tech threes are kind of in a bad place for solo / small gang. Most ships can do their jobs better for cheaper. Why do you need a cloak so badly anyway?

i would tend to desagree with you.

cloacky strat are great, pricey, yes, but really great, provided you fit and use them for specific purpose.

a duo with a loki and a prot, with the right fits, can take a lot of things, with loki able to go up to 200k ehp and prot around 500 dps. and you have both point and web range bonus => priceless

yes, you can do almost as good with other ships, but you will never be THAT good.

but played well, you can achieve awesome with those


and you won't do better for cheaper, if you go recon, you will do better on ewar side, no question on this, but your tank and dps will not be close, and you will not fly the same way, meaning not the same purpose.

my opinion might be biased tho, since i have many ships, and i try to always take the right tool, and often, the right one is a cloacky T3, but sometime it's not, then i revert to a arazu / rapier etc....

after all, it's like all ships in eve, pro and cons, and since you are cloacky, it is up to you to dictate the fight, starting by: shall i engage this


after that, if you need it for pve purpose, then find something else, you can find cheaper that will perform better, i not in WH / null, a cruiser with a mwd + cloack will probably serve better, like some pirate or hics (gila / ishtar do very well in pve)


Dont give away our super secret wh hunting duo!....gawsh.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-07-04 06:13:48 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:
I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki


The only person talking about Lokis is you. I never mentioned them.

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship can engage more ships than covops and another ship. To argue otherwise is to argue that a covops is gankier and tankier than a cloaky proby Proteus, and that's just silly. Lol


I am going to argue otherwise. I will take a faster ship that is able to project damage, over a slow super short ranged piece of garbage any day. The fact that you cannot see the obvious downsides to using a ship that struggles to break 1k/s is breathtaking. You realize that even though i am choosing just one ship- I will still have the ability to engage much larger groups of people, and as I have said before have a much larger target selection.

The only thing your proteus is good for, is killing defenseless ships. Like noctis, or perhaps a barge or two. There is no way you could deal with even a small handful of ships while operating your proposed Proteus. If you are caught in a hostile worm hole, the enemy corp will start warping in more ships. because you are in scram web range, you cannot run- and if you cannot break the tank of the ship your fighting- then your going to die a horrible death. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much EHP or how great of a tank you have, because the enemy will always bring more.


A cloaky buffer Proteus goes 1800m/s, active one 2281m/s. Both have HARD tackle out to +18km.

Proteus is not in scram and web range if it doesn't want to, but the target is and stays. Deal with it.







.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#29 - 2013-07-04 07:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
Roime wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:
I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki


The only person talking about Lokis is you. I never mentioned them.

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship can engage more ships than covops and another ship. To argue otherwise is to argue that a covops is gankier and tankier than a cloaky proby Proteus, and that's just silly. Lol


I am going to argue otherwise. I will take a faster ship that is able to project damage, over a slow super short ranged piece of garbage any day. The fact that you cannot see the obvious downsides to using a ship that struggles to break 1k/s is breathtaking. You realize that even though i am choosing just one ship- I will still have the ability to engage much larger groups of people, and as I have said before have a much larger target selection.

The only thing your proteus is good for, is killing defenseless ships. Like noctis, or perhaps a barge or two. There is no way you could deal with even a small handful of ships while operating your proposed Proteus. If you are caught in a hostile worm hole, the enemy corp will start warping in more ships. because you are in scram web range, you cannot run- and if you cannot break the tank of the ship your fighting- then your going to die a horrible death. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much EHP or how great of a tank you have, because the enemy will always bring more.


A cloaky buffer Proteus goes 1800m/s, active one 2281m/s. Both have HARD tackle out to +18km.

Proteus is not in scram and web range if it doesn't want to, but the target is and stays. Deal with it.



So.. a Proteus can't do damage out to 18k. Just throwing that out there. So as i have said before, you can't do any damage unless you are in scram web range.

You just don't understand fall off very well do you?

This is what happens to ****** cloaky (tanky) proteus. I sit at 19K and slam your face with missiles. And laugh.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13684802
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-07-04 07:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Chessur wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Chessur wrote:
I can assure you that my Omen navy issue / Scythe fleet isse / Caracal / Phoon + a covops have a much much large engagement profile than your Cloak Proteus + loki


The only person talking about Lokis is you. I never mentioned them.

It's self-evident that cloaky Proteus and another ship can engage more ships than covops and another ship. To argue otherwise is to argue that a covops is gankier and tankier than a cloaky proby Proteus, and that's just silly. Lol


I am going to argue otherwise. I will take a faster ship that is able to project damage, over a slow super short ranged piece of garbage any day.


This is a discussion about the merits of cloaky Proteus and another ship, against the alternative of a covops and another ship. A covops cannot project damage. You are being very silly.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2013-07-04 07:52:21 UTC
Chessur wrote:


So.. a Proteus can't do damage out to 18k. Just throwing that out there. So as i have said before, you can't do any damage unless you are in scram web range.

You just don't understand fall off very well do you?

This is what happens to ****** cloaky (tanky) proteus. I sit at 19K and slam your face with missiles. And laugh.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13684802


It does about 150dps out to 18km, which matters a little since the Proteus closes the range in a matter of seconds. If it would even decloak that far out. Do you understand that the target is scrammed and webbed, and the Proteus isn't?

Congratulations on winning a 3 vs1 against a terrible failfit railgun afterburner CCC-rigged scanning Proteus probably originally meant for PVE.

.
xX420SwaGxXn0sc0p3kiLLaX fitemeIRL
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-04 09:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: xX420SwaGxXn0sc0p3kiLLaX fitemeIRL
chessur, mate - pretty sure that this entire discussion is about ganking people that don't want to fight, hence the cloaky thing.

fwiw, 2200 m/s is not particularly fast in todays cruiser meta tbh, but again, that implies you are looking to fight people that actually will fight back. It's definitely good enough for fighting pve'ers.
Previous page12