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September 8th patch, what's new

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bornaa
GRiD.
#21 - 2011-11-08 21:59:23 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
CCP Choloepus wrote:

  • It's only visible for your own turret shots, or those being aimed at you. Fleet battles otherwise look much like TQ.

    • Awesome regardless.

    Am I right in thinking the client simply doesn't know whether shots fired by other ships, at other ships, hit or miss? Presumably that's why other shots will always appear to hit?

    Just for the sake of eye candy, could other ships' turret fire be given the appearance of missing sometimes, or alternatively, could the client detect hits and misses for whatever ship or object the camera is anchored to?


    Got it in one, this feature is only using information that is currently to hand on the client.

    As to the second point, faking the accuracy of other ships is something we'd really like to do eventually, but I'm afraid it's not going to be in the winter expansion.

    I'll make a note of the camera anchor point and watchlist, if not for winter then for later! I'd have to check exactly what updates these objects get under fire.



    For other ships can you make hit/miss animations random???
    so that all shots don't visually hit...

    i know that client don't know did that guy actually hit that other guy or did it miss... that's why i am suggesting this...
    [Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
    Logan LaMort
    Screaming Hayabusa
    #22 - 2011-11-08 22:12:36 UTC
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    Avila Cracko wrote:
    Keras Authion wrote:
    Shots that actually miss. Picture.



    WOW... no way... Big smile

    THNX A LOT CCP... Big smile



    This feature is still in its early stages, and has a few limitations:


    • It's only visible for your own turret shots, or those being aimed at you. Fleet battles otherwise look much like TQ.
    • The first shot when you start cycling your weapons will always look like it hits, sorry.
    • There are definitely bugs with the Singularity version which have been fixed already.


    But that aside, please do provide feedback! Smile


    Is it technically possible for us to see other people shooting animation as random hits and misses?
    So of course the server and their client would see which shots hit and miss, but regardless if they hit or miss our clients would see a either a hit or miss animation at random.

    It could look very cool for fleet fights, especially if tidi kicks in. It's not like we see if they hit or miss anyway, so might as well make it visually spectacular.
    CCP Choloepus
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #23 - 2011-11-08 22:17:17 UTC
    bornaa wrote:


    For other ships can you make hit/miss animations random???
    so that all shots don't visually hit...

    i know that client don't know did that guy actually hit that other guy or did it miss... that's why i am suggesting this...


    I'll have to talk this over with artists and designers, ideally we'd rather have the faked hits and misses have at least a somewhat similar distribution to the actual messages from the server. Then the visual effects serve as a very rough guide for how the battle proceeds rather than just being random.

    But overall we'd rather get something solid and fun for your own ship in place for winter than risk this not making it in. Smile
    Logan LaMort
    Screaming Hayabusa
    #24 - 2011-11-08 22:23:15 UTC
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    bornaa wrote:


    For other ships can you make hit/miss animations random???
    so that all shots don't visually hit...

    i know that client don't know did that guy actually hit that other guy or did it miss... that's why i am suggesting this...


    I'll have to talk this over with artists and designers, ideally we'd rather have the faked hits and misses have at least a somewhat similar distribution to the actual messages from the server. Then the visual effects serve as a very rough guide for how the battle proceeds rather than just being random.

    But overall we'd rather get something solid and fun for your own ship in place for winter than risk this not making it in. Smile


    Definitely agree on the priority of your own client, it's a small change but makes a big difference.

    I would argue most people would prefer: almost accurate > random > none at all, when it comes to seeing other people hit and miss. So if random is only possible, I bet it would still be well received.

    Trust me, I'm an artist AND designer Lol
    Autonomous Monster
    Paradox Interstellar
    #25 - 2011-11-08 22:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Autonomous Monster
    Hmm... the client already receives a notification for every shot fired on grid, right? It has to render it. How difficult/resource heavy would it be to tag a single hit/miss bool onto those notifications? I mean, we're talking a single bit here. A word at most, surely?

    This is a great addition, regardless.
    bornaa
    GRiD.
    #26 - 2011-11-08 22:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    bornaa wrote:


    For other ships can you make hit/miss animations random???
    so that all shots don't visually hit...

    i know that client don't know did that guy actually hit that other guy or did it miss... that's why i am suggesting this...


    I'll have to talk this over with artists and designers, ideally we'd rather have the faked hits and misses have at least a somewhat similar distribution to the actual messages from the server. Then the visual effects serve as a very rough guide for how the battle proceeds rather than just being random.

    But overall we'd rather get something solid and fun for your own ship in place for winter than risk this not making it in. Smile



    If you can't squeeze it in winter expansion... please don't forget it after it...
    its one little thing that make EVE much much better game...
    just imagine new fleet fight videos... Big smile
    [Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
    Raid'En
    #27 - 2011-11-08 22:29:45 UTC
    Autonomous Monster wrote:
    Hmm... the client already receives a notification for every shot fired on grid, right? It has to render it. How difficult/resource heavy would it be to tag a single hit/miss bool onto those notifications? I mean, we're talking a single bit here. A word at most, surely?

    This is a great addition, regardless.

    don't ask for more lag on fleets :<
    Autonomous Monster
    Paradox Interstellar
    #28 - 2011-11-08 22:31:16 UTC
    Raid'En wrote:
    don't ask for more lag on fleets :<



    One bit! One b- yeah, okay, you're probably right. Cry
    bornaa
    GRiD.
    #29 - 2011-11-08 22:32:22 UTC
    Raid'En wrote:
    Autonomous Monster wrote:
    Hmm... the client already receives a notification for every shot fired on grid, right? It has to render it. How difficult/resource heavy would it be to tag a single hit/miss bool onto those notifications? I mean, we're talking a single bit here. A word at most, surely?

    This is a great addition, regardless.

    don't ask for more lag on fleets :<


    I dont know about that new data that would be sent...
    but all other things that we are talking about are done in client... so no stress on server... and no more lag...

    [Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
    Alticus C Bear
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #30 - 2011-11-08 22:53:13 UTC
    As someone who like to get up close and use transversal in PVE I am going to love all those shots flying past me.
    Daedalus Arcova
    The Scope
    #31 - 2011-11-08 23:00:15 UTC
    Autonomous Monster wrote:
    Hmm... the client already receives a notification for every shot fired on grid, right? It has to render it. How difficult/resource heavy would it be to tag a single hit/miss bool onto those notifications? I mean, we're talking a single bit here. A word at most, surely?

    This is a great addition, regardless.


    Actually, all the client needs to know to show ships shooting at each other is the weapon type, the aggressing ship, the target, and the rate of fire. The server sends it this information once when the guns start cycling, and again when they stop. Or at least, that's my educated guess.
    Raid'En
    #32 - 2011-11-08 23:11:44 UTC
    bornaa wrote:

    but all other things that we are talking about are done in client... so no stress on server... and no more lag...

    that it will stress our computer more. don't want that either :P
    Dominique Vasilkovsky
    #33 - 2011-11-08 23:15:00 UTC
    September 8th?

    The missing shots are fantastic as is the new feature to click jump on any gate in system and your ship will warp there and jump across.
    bornaa
    GRiD.
    #34 - 2011-11-08 23:16:42 UTC
    Raid'En wrote:
    bornaa wrote:

    but all other things that we are talking about are done in client... so no stress on server... and no more lag...

    that it will stress our computer more. don't want that either :P


    i hope you are kidding... because ppl that are saying things like that make me angry...
    time of PCs with 486 processors is passed looong time ago... that ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave...
    [Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
    Gripen
    #35 - 2011-11-08 23:23:56 UTC
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    Got it in one, this feature is only using information that is currently to hand on the client.

    As to the second point, faking the accuracy of other ships is something we'd really like to do eventually, but I'm afraid it's not going to be in the winter expansion.

    Isn't information about weapon type already given to the client? Like ship A shoots ship B using weapon with RoF X and shot effect "Large Beam Laser"? Then you just need to assign "typical tracking" for each weapon effect and use it to display hit/misses on other ships. This should give pretty reasonable results.
    BeanBagKing
    The Order of Atlas
    #36 - 2011-11-09 00:36:56 UTC
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    But that aside, please do provide feedback! Smile


    Oh, I'll give you feedback alright, just let me pick my jaw up off the floor first and figure out where my eyes rolled off to when they popped out of my head....

    This is amazing, epic, astonishing, monumental, and several other adjectives that I'm still too flabbergasted to think of. Seriously, this was one of the most immersion breaking aspects of the game when I first started (this and all shots hitting the same one or two places on a ship, let this be fixed next?). I always wanted to be able to visually see my interceptor dodging lasers and artillery (do missiles miss too?).

    Seriously (without trying to over play it this time), I love the work you guys have been doing lately, there's a lot of little fixes like this that really add to the immersion and beauty of the game that people don't think of because they don't add any real "content". Not that this is all I want to see (content needs love too), but fixing these little things, slowly but surely, adds to the game in so many ways. I'm really glad to see work being done on these aspects. Please keep it up.

    I would encourage you to try to get it to show up on friendly ships getting fired at too (as others in this thread have said), and I could understand it being somewhat random, but I would rather you spend some time and get it as close as possible rather than take the shortcut suggested and make it completely random. For example. If 90% of a hostiles shots are hitting my friend, and you guys made 90% visually hit, but it wasn't the exact 90, just a random 90 out of 100 shots, that I would be fine with. But if you just say meh, every shot has a random chance to hit, we're not going to calculate anything or make it match the damage actually being taken, I don't think that's the right way to do it.

    Also, like I said, the next thing I'd love to see is projectiles hitting at random spots on the model so that it really looked like they were being shot instead of only hitting a few specific points on the target. If you want to see what I mean in action, take a dozon or so abaddons out and shoot a tower. Those spikey points seem to draw laser fire like lightning rods, all the shots hit one point, it doesn't look very real.

    Again, <3 CCP
    Cailais
    The Red Pill Taker Group
    #37 - 2011-11-09 00:50:32 UTC
    CCP Choloepus wrote:
    Avila Cracko wrote:
    Keras Authion wrote:
    Shots that actually miss. Picture.



    WOW... no way... Big smile

    THNX A LOT CCP... Big smile



    This feature is still in its early stages, and has a few limitations:


    • It's only visible for your own turret shots, or those being aimed at you. Fleet battles otherwise look much like TQ.
    • The first shot when you start cycling your weapons will always look like it hits, sorry.
    • There are definitely bugs with the Singularity version which have been fixed already.


    But that aside, please do provide feedback! Smile


    Its flippin brilliant thats what it is! Big smile

    C.
    Yvan Ratamnim
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #38 - 2011-11-09 00:58:45 UTC
    well technically your already passing the shots to all the clients aren't you ??? as we can see that X person shot gun at Y

    Can't you just send

    X - laser - Y - Hit
    X - missle - Y - Miss

    I mean theoretically isnt it just 1 more bit on or off being transmitted per shot of hit or miss? to get full on proper hit/misses?

    .....

    BUT OTHER THAN THAT

    THIS IS THE SEXIEST THING SINCE EVER!!!!!!!!!! WINTERS GONNA ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE KEEP THIS GOING FOR SUMMER NEXT YEAR AS WELL KEEP THIS GOING LIKE THIS CONTINUALLY PLEEEASSSEEEEE
    Cunane Jeran
    #39 - 2011-11-09 02:11:22 UTC
    This may be in bad taste but, I've got a chub on over those miss shots.
    Ranger 1
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #40 - 2011-11-09 03:14:22 UTC
    Is it me, or are there two different types of misses?

    It might have simply been an effect of the angle between the ship and it's target, but it seemed like the client might even be making the distinction between a "misses you completely" and a "near miss".

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