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Jump Freighter Ganking - CCP what you will do against this???

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Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#241 - 2013-07-03 12:52:20 UTC
I got more tears for you today . ;) since im not logging in anymore for now i have time to stay on this forum 24/7
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2013-07-03 13:16:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
1. Very highrisk
LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't.
So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well.

BALANCE!

They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies.

To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#243 - 2013-07-03 13:18:40 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
1. Very highrisk
LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't.
So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well.

BALANCE!

They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies.

To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.



I might be stupid, in fact assume I am but

Please describe the strategy used to suicide gank a Jump Freighter in High Sec

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Elecktra Blue
Perkone
Caldari State
#244 - 2013-07-03 13:21:13 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
1. Very highrisk
LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't.
So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well.

BALANCE!

They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies.

To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.



I might be stupid, in fact assume I am but

Please describe the strategy used to suicide gank a Jump Freighter in High Sec


For a live demonstration, please undock in a freighter with valuable cargo, and a Minister will be there shortly to assist you with educational material regarding this phenomenon.

Miniluv Minister
Thugnificent Gangstalicio
Doomheim
#245 - 2013-07-03 13:24:39 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
I got more tears for you today . ;) since im not logging in anymore for now i have time to stay on this forum 24/7


Cool. Go play WoW or something.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#246 - 2013-07-03 13:27:02 UTC
Elecktra Blue wrote:


For a live demonstration, please undock in a freighter with valuable cargo, and a Minister will be there shortly to assist you with educational material regarding this phenomenon.



I have no doubt that your experienced operatives are more than capable of conducting such a mission



But I doubt the person I asked has the first clue about it


Which is what I was asking

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#247 - 2013-07-03 13:32:06 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Dying at all means it's very risky to autopilot to Jita with a hold of stuff.

VERY RISKY (to autopilot to Jita with a hold of stuff)
In other words, very low to no risk (unless you press the suicide button).

Infinity Ziona wrote:
They die in high a lot.
The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter?

Quote:
To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.
…which makes it a very very high risk.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#248 - 2013-07-03 13:44:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…which makes it a very very high risk.


What is it with you, arguing black is white all the time. Fact is, it's very low risk, because the chance of losing your ship needs to be multiplied by the cost of the stuff you're going to lose. It's stupid to say it's "very high risk". It isn't. It's forthelolz risk.

Yes, it is a broken mechanic. No, there's nothing you can do about it. The only way I know to move value to Jita (not from it), is to take your high value stuff in a warpy/cloaky. Highly unlikely you're going to get caught unless you get stuck on a clusterfail gate at peak time.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#249 - 2013-07-03 13:47:19 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…which makes it a very very high risk.


Fact is, it's very low risk



As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life



Im afraid I agree with Victoria on this one, sorry

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#250 - 2013-07-03 13:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Tippia wrote:

Infinity Ziona wrote:
They die in high a lot.
The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter?


I bet it's all about safety in numbers, if 1000 freighters travel to jita every day, and 2 of them get ganked on the way (every day) then Your average risk to loos a freighter is at 0,002% (every day). :)

Or, if You carry 2bil worth of stuff in Your hold You can calculate an average risk of 400m isk. Cost for the freighter not included ofc. Lol

Now I wish I had numbers not pulled out of my arse so we could do some risk calculation. Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#251 - 2013-07-03 14:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…which makes it a very very high risk.


Fact is, it's very low risk



As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life



Im afraid I agree with Victoria on this one, sorry


I disagree.

It's actually 100% risk, because you will definitely, without question, lose your ship. You might lose your pod too.

But the risk is taken into account by the ganker, and the effects of this risk minimized. Pure planning and preparation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#252 - 2013-07-03 14:08:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It's actually 100% risk, because you will definitely, without question, lose your ship. You might lose your pod too.


Like ganking barges, please multiply the "risk" by the cost of what you're risking to come up with a fairer metric for what is actually being "risked" here.

Regardless, one lesson the OP needs to learn early in Eve is that people like ganking expensive stuff and just because it didn't get ganked the first 99 times you did it, doesn't mean it won't be the 100th time. You just kept rolling that 100 sided dice.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2013-07-03 14:09:12 UTC
yo regarding the 'losing the ganking ship is a high/low risk' horseshit

risk is more like the chance of an undesired outcome. gankers pretty obviously always lose their ship to succeed, it's not a risk because it's an inevitable outcome, success or failure. saying the loss of the gank ship is high or low risk (this happens every damned argument on the subject) is stupid because it's not a risk at all, it's a guaranteed event and foreseen expense or penalty

a risk, as i see it, is the chance of an event or circumstance leading to the failure of the venture. in this case, it is any circumstance or event leading to the outcome of the loss of the ganking fleet without securing the cargo of the freighter over the desired outcome of the loss of the ganking fleet and securing the value of the freighter

it is not correct to say 'the loss of the brutix is a risk', it is only correct to say 'the value of the brutix is put at risk'

there are actual risks associated with ganking for profit, like failing the gank, hitting an empty ship, the ship not dropping anything, the cargo being stolen, the fleet being disorganised, whatev. which are all mitigated by preparation, knowledge and effort, so the idea there is no or little risk is still ridiculous - the risk is there and minimised by the effort of competent, organised and patient gankers

an organised, considered team effort versus the effort and forethought of the lone freighter pilot. the gankers put up the value of their fleet, the freighter puts up the value of their ship and cargo
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#254 - 2013-07-03 14:13:51 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…which makes it a very very high risk.

What is it with you, arguing black is white all the time.
No, I'm merely arguing that black is the absence of (visible) light.

Risk = cost × probability. If the probability of loss is high, then so is the risk.

Fact is, it's almost a 100% risk (there's always the slim chance that the target just insta-dies before you get the chance to activate your guns). What you're talking about is the ability to mitigate this risk: pick a low cost; pick a high-value target; adjust the spawn timers to give you a greater chance of a successful kill; sacrifice a goat to the Random Number God to get a good drop.

None of it removes or chances the fact that the ship is at risk — very very high risk.

Quote:
Yes, it is a broken mechanic.
In what way is it broken?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#255 - 2013-07-03 14:16:05 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
there are actual risks associated with ganking for profit, like failing the gank, hitting an empty ship, the ship not dropping anything, the cargo being stolen, the fleet being disorganised, whatev. which are all mitigated by preparation, knowledge and effort,

correction: not even goon sorcery can mitigate the wrath of the loot fairy
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#256 - 2013-07-03 14:16:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:


As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life


I disagree.



Sorry but this is a scientifically provable fact

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nox Solitudo
That Random Worker Ant Colony
#257 - 2013-07-03 14:21:23 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:

Quote:
and i don´t want a discussion about these...

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want a dicussion, you're in the wrong place.


Seriously, now how am I supposed to explain my colleagues why I'm laying helplessly on a desk trying to stop my uncontrollable burst of laughter? :(
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#258 - 2013-07-03 14:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Debora Tsung wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Infinity Ziona wrote:
They die in high a lot.
The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter?


I bet it's all about safety in numbers, if 1000 freighters travel to jita every day, and 2 of them get ganked on the way (every day) then Your average risk to loos a freighter is at 0,002% (every day). :)

Or, if You carry 2bil worth of stuff in Your hold You can calculate an average risk of 400m isk. Cost for the freighter not included ofc. Lol

Now I wish I had numbers not pulled out of my arse so we could do some risk calculation. Big smile


We did (because we love numbers and facts) and the risk of losing a freighter with a cargo that is not profitable to gank is around the same as being involved in a fatal car crash.

Its most likely much lower as we calculated using the average number of freighters to pass through jita in a day vs EVE wide freighter/JF kills over a month. If you work out freighters killed vs freighter trips EVE wide chances are you will be struck by lightning first unless you do something daft.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#259 - 2013-07-03 14:31:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
The point is bubbles worked just like they were designed to But the designer didnt intend for them to pull people through there POS.
…in other words, the shields were not working as intended, which makes it completely unlike bumping or aggression flagging, and which made it an exploit (again completely unlike bumping or aggression flagging).

Quote:
Better ?
You're still trying to equate using something that's working as intended with exploiting something that wasn't, so no. Still as bad since the comparison is still the same.



Well no. By your own logic a warp bubble should be able to drag into a pos based on the fact when you are in warp you can go through planets.

But it created an unfair advantage and wrongful manipulation of the sandbox tools at our disposal, so CCP did away with that element. Because it wasn't "meant to be used in that way".

/shrug

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2013-07-03 14:32:04 UTC
*sigh*

Isn't the whole point of EVE online that "someone is going to blow you up, so look out"?

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.