Player Features and Ideas Discussion

my main hope is they remove the e-war bonuses and some utility highs ..and give them some unique flavour .. they clash with pirate battleships too much.
i would like too see more of a pvp focus after-all you can mission with any ship really why waste 4 perfectly good ships on pve.

What other game or even MMO ever managed to do this? While the idea sounds nice, it is unbelievable hard to balance in the end, to end up with a challenge for people in her faction BS while not completely crush a newer player.



For what reason you believe marauders would be not viable in pvp?

Is it the role bonus, that you don't have to use? Is it the fitting that prevents you from fitting heavy neut in that utility slots(yes the Vargur is gimped for a good reason)? Is it the active tanking bonus that is even useless in most pve content? Is it sensor strength and lock speed, what are fairly negotiable drawbacks outside of solo pvp? Is it because shooting the crosses or squares is a completely separate thing and not dependent on the same principals of damage types, dps, range and the tracking/missile formula? Or is it actually(if you think a bit about it) that most marauders just need a little help to better define her role and provide different stuff than pirate faction/pirate BS hulls.

I think it would be better to simply rework marauders as I mentioned before, because if you take a 2. look I might not only speak about pve when I suggest changes.

Smart and clever are not the same thing.

In this context:
Smart is a degree of complexity, that can interpret and decipher enabling it to adapt, much like a person can.
Clever is bypassing the need for smart, by simply using tricks such as randomization and basic safeguards to achieve the same effect.

To use a casino card-game analogy:
Smart is card counting, so you know with increasing certainty which cards are likely to next appear.
Clever counters this, by simply using multiple decks and / or swapping to a new deck before it can become predictable.

ROFL

You have a terribly limited view about what is possible here...
Or do you simply assume PvP style missions to be overwhelming to this degree?

Do you consider as desirable the predictable mechanics possible to min max fits, that results in farming?

Maybe people might just enjoy the challenge of not knowing the details, and fighting with more practical and general fitting.

You make it sound like people want to always expect to win, and hate uncertainty.

I happen to know that players like risks. I could visit many places where people flock to, simply for the chance of winning.
They are called casinos.

Is EVE a casino? Obviously not! But the point remains that people enjoy a challenge.
PvP is considered a necessary element in the game because the spectre of absolute safety bores people, and they don't play boring games.

Challenging missions, where the results were not an obvious win every time because they are predictable, can be balanced.

it depends entirely on the people and on the game. when i play a pvp game with an elo system, i expect to win about 50% of the time. when i buy and fit a firetail and go out into lowsec to pick a fight, i expect to lose more often than win. when i casually grind lvl4 missions while drinking beer and watching game of thrones, i do not expect to 'lose' very often.
and there is plenty of risks for those players pretty much anywhere else in the game, including hisec. (btw, i think that pirates hunting mission runners should be much more common than it is.)
is being able to finish the mission the only challenge you can think of?

funny, if missions are boring and people don't play boring games, why are people running missions?

Answer: Currently, they are doing it to generate ISK, so they can use this ISK towards doing more interesting things in the game.

We don't really disagree here, I suspect.

You want players to have a farmable income, like these missions we have now.

I want something more challenging, and not need to turn to PvP for it as my only option.
The Marauder can certainly be a ship capable of fielding the most challenging PvE content, as much as, (if not better than), any other ship in the game.

There is no point where these goals are actually in conflict, both can exist together as play options.

again, have you tried FW missions, wormhole sites, (lowsec)incursions, 10/10 DED complexes, etc. etc.? hell, if all you want is a challenge i dare you to load a rookie ship full of plex and get to VFK-IV and back.

tl;dr; PvE should be more like PvP so at least some lessons learned can be transferable to PvP.

People run missions for ISK, so they can do things that are much more fun. Its like doing your chores before you go out on the town. Sometimes a little bit of grind is alright (makes the fun more fun when it happens), but missions are a little too far into the abyssal grind machine.

Something needs to happen with just pirate NPCs in general. My vote would be to reduce there numbers, give them actual fits for the actual ships they are in (that possibly change, but adhere to a single philosophy for the faction they represent), raise bounties slightly, and make them more like actual ships you would see in EvE. Make missions harder in a more realistic way.

The whole mission level system works somewhat, but why not implement a more dynamic system. If you are in a fleet, there are harder enemies, or more of them all dependent on the amount of people in your fleet. Reward cooperation in a more dynamic way that makes solo missioning still fun, while adding challenge to missioning with a group.

It all boils down to the fact that the whole point of missions should be to get you ready for PvP, which missions just generally ****-ing fail at doing.

inb4: PvP is the only way to learn to PvP.
PvE will NEVER be like PvP, this statement is ****-ing obvious. PvE should be close though, and things that you learn while PvEing should be applicable to PvPing.

That is DEFINITELY a good option, letting human employees tweak and send in unpredictable items.

My idea on this was basically, have multiple random options available for each mission. It would add replayability, as well as keep players from zoning out due to obvious and easily countered elements that make it a farm fest.

Having it scale based on ships used as well as number of player ships would take it even further.