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Jump Freighter Ganking - CCP what you will do against this???

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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-07-02 11:44:11 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
WoW.


Every. Single. Post.


If you don't learn by history, you're doomed to repeat it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#122 - 2013-07-02 11:45:23 UTC
Anna Djan wrote:
Although I see this as a whine post, being able to gank a 7bil ship with 500mil worth in highsec needs looking at.
Not really, no. Being able to gank one ship with 10 or 20 is entirely as it should be. The respective costs are not a factor.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
I believe that EvE should be a difficult game. It should take effort to kill a multi-billion isk ship.
As luck would have it, it does. It requires the co-ordination of dozens of people in purpose-built ships, often in many stages. The numbers inherently increase the cost and the risk, on top of the inherent risks involved and the consequences that need to be paid.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Thing is, how do you increase the risk/cost of ganking?
Nah. The thing is, why should you increase the risk/cost of ganking? The rest is much the same, though. In the end, it's the victims that determine the risks and costs, and if they think they are too low, they should try to raise them rather than complain about how their actions have made it “too easy” to gank them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#123 - 2013-07-02 11:51:35 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
WoW.


Every. Single. Post.


If you don't learn by history, you're doomed to repeat it.


Especially if you roam around all day with a bullhorn loudly and obnoxiously demanding that the many mistakes of the past be repeated in an entirely different setting.

Quote:
Nah. The thing is, why should you increase the risk/cost of ganking? The rest is much the same, though. In the end, it's the victims that determine the risks and costs, and if they think they are too low, they should try to raise them rather than complain about how their actions have made it “too easy” to gank them.


Oh, very true. But at this point I am arguing on the premise that the whiners have no real idea as to the "how", and that their "why" mostly consists of "I got ganked and it's my fault but I want ganking banned because losing my space pixels hurt my precious feelings!". Since they have neither a solution or actual proof that there is a problem...

Basically, I am attempting to discredit their entire position.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#124 - 2013-07-02 11:51:53 UTC
Anna Djan wrote:
Although I see this as a whine post, being able to gank a 7bil ship with 500mil worth in highsec needs looking at.


Right because PvP is purely balanced on cost Roll

2 bill worth of cruisers and BCs would trivially kill a 30 bill supercarrier; why shouldn't the same ratio apply to a JF?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#125 - 2013-07-02 11:54:36 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
WoW.


Every. Single. Post.


If you don't learn by history, you're doomed to repeat it.


As it seems you're doomed to repeat the same thing over and over. I guess you don't learn...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#126 - 2013-07-02 11:58:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I believe that EvE should be a difficult game. It should take effort to kill a multi-billion isk ship. Being able to kill freighters and other high value targets in high sec in seconds, with a bunch of low skilled alts for giggles devalues EvE. Why put in effort and pay 50 - 500 mill wardecs to hunt targets, or pirate in low or null and hunt targets and in turn be hunted when you can just sit safely and immune in high ganking multi billion isk freighters / jump freighters risk free.


Oh I seeee


It should be easy for one group of players and not another


Got it

Should be easy for no one.


You mean players shouldn't be allowed to make it easy for others to gank them?

So if I jump a completely untanked carrier into a fight with no exit cyno, no smartbomb, no neut, it shouldn't be any easier to kill than a carrier with faction tank, 2 exits, etc.?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#127 - 2013-07-02 12:00:43 UTC
I would still personally like to see the Empires react to ganking in their space, people should get some kind of Faction hit for criminal acts with Empire space. It's like you can run around Caldari space causing hell and the State just goes "Oh well CONCORD will sort it out... no need for us to get annoyed he's ruining our trade routes"

Having Faction standing losses added would for me add more feel that the Empires are meaningful as well as another barrier against what has become a far too easy and common profession within EVE.
Security Status is far too easy to regain and not a real penalty for suicide ganking, in fact most ganking alts don't even bother to regain the standings because the Faction Police can be avoided long enough to warp to the next gank target and kill them.

Faction standing loss is something which will hurt that character in the long term making suicide ganking a profession with real consequences (although again most people are using alts and don't care about the long term effects).

A solution to this could be to start having Factions deny docking in their stations after your faction standings have dropped low enough, so if you continue to gank in Caldari HighSec you wont be able to use Caldari stations to keep you gank alt in or dock to get new ships. This also add more to the feel that the Empires are doing something and adds more to the Choices Matter which CCP keep saying they want in EVE.

TL;DR: Revamp HighSec to make Factions more alive and mean more than what LP you're getting.

http://themittani.com/features/bringing-life-highsec-tying-worlds-together Svetlana Scarlet also has

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2013-07-02 12:01:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Should be easy for no one.


Its much harder to set up a freighter gank than to make a freighter safe and requires at least 17 more people for the gank.

Lol. Its not hard at all. As you pointed out you make very high profits while sitting in high sec totally safe from harm. You're pretty much identical to the risk averse hi-sec miner except your profit is much higher. The miner has to worry about ganks and performs some effort. You bump a freighter and click a button once or twice.

If high sec pvers were as risk free and profitable as you, you guys would be screaming like little girls for CCP to nerf them. It benefits you, so you defend it. Thats pretty much the facts.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2013-07-02 12:04:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Should be easy for no one.


Its much harder to set up a freighter gank than to make a freighter safe and requires at least 17 more people for the gank.

Lol. Its not hard at all. As you pointed out you make very high profits while sitting in high sec totally safe from harm. You're pretty much identical to the risk averse hi-sec miner except your profit is much higher. The miner has to worry about ganks and performs some effort. You bump a freighter and click a button once or twice.

If high sec pvers were as risk free and profitable as you, you guys would be screaming like little girls for CCP to nerf them. It benefits you, so you defend it. Thats pretty much the facts.

darn you make it sound so easy

perhaps you should try it yourself if it's so simple and profitable
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#130 - 2013-07-02 12:10:50 UTC
Turelus wrote:
I would still personally like to see the Empires react to ganking in their space, people should get some kind of Faction hit for criminal acts with Empire space. It's like you can run around Caldari space causing hell and the State just goes "Oh well CONCORD will sort it out... no need for us to get annoyed he's ruining our trade routes"
None of their goods, services, or citizens are being attacked, so why would the State care?

Quote:
Having Faction standing losses added would for me add more feel that the Empires are meaningful as well as another barrier against what has become a far too easy and common profession within EVE.
Why does it need more barriers? It's rare as hell, and if it were easy and common, stuff would be dying left right and centre like it did in the olden days. Instead, there's only two or three groups doing it. That gives me the impression that it's a pretty difficult and very rare profession.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lol. Its not hard at all. As you pointed out you make very high profits while sitting in high sec totally safe from harm.
Then why is it so rare? Why is it that no-one manages to replicate it en masse? Just because it's profitable doesn't mean it's not hard — in fact, I'd venture to guess that it's the opposite: because it is so hard, it has become an exceedingly rare event. That rarity has made freighter pilots uninformed and disinterested about the risks in what they do, and they go scampering around with massively overloaded ships as a result. This, in turn, makes it possible for those who have learned all the required tricks to actually make a profit, but it doesn't mean that anyone can just park on a gate and wait for the cash to roll in.

Difficulty → Rarity → Carelessness → Huge windfall on the few occasions it works.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2013-07-02 12:12:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I believe that EvE should be a difficult game. It should take effort to kill a multi-billion isk ship. Being able to kill freighters and other high value targets in high sec in seconds, with a bunch of low skilled alts for giggles devalues EvE. Why put in effort and pay 50 - 500 mill wardecs to hunt targets, or pirate in low or null and hunt targets and in turn be hunted when you can just sit safely and immune in high ganking multi billion isk freighters / jump freighters risk free.


Oh I seeee


It should be easy for one group of players and not another


Got it

Should be easy for no one.


You mean players shouldn't be allowed to make it easy for others to gank them?

So if I jump a completely untanked carrier into a fight with no exit cyno, no smartbomb, no neut, it shouldn't be any easier to kill than a carrier with faction tank, 2 exits, etc.?

Your analogy doesn't work. Its just obfuscation.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#132 - 2013-07-02 12:13:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You mean players shouldn't be allowed to make it easy for others to gank them?

So if I jump a completely untanked carrier into a fight with no exit cyno, no smartbomb, no neut, it shouldn't be any easier to kill than a carrier with faction tank, 2 exits, etc.?

Your analogy doesn't work. Its just obfuscation.

Why doesn't it work? What is it obfuscating?
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#133 - 2013-07-02 12:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Turelus wrote:
I would still personally like to see the Empires react to ganking in their space, people should get some kind of Faction hit for criminal acts with Empire space. It's like you can run around Caldari space causing hell and the State just goes "Oh well CONCORD will sort it out... no need for us to get annoyed he's ruining our trade routes"


They get concordokened and a hit on their sec status, why do You think that wouldn't be enough?

So long as they stay out of their business the empires just don't care about capsuleers, why would that suddenly change when some capsuleers gank some other capsuleers?

And, it's not "their" trade routes. It's our trade routes, I've never seen an NPC hauler on the main trades routes in the last couple of years.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Alpha Taredi
Multispace Technologies Inc
#134 - 2013-07-02 12:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpha Taredi
bad luck!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#135 - 2013-07-02 12:35:51 UTC
Oh and…
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
WoW.
Every. Single. Post.
If you don't learn by history, you're doomed to repeat it.
Historical lesson #1: Don't ever try to copy or emulate WoW — it inevitably leads to failure and ruin.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#136 - 2013-07-02 12:40:13 UTC
Buff freighter :
+100% structure
one low slot for a damage control
8 hi slot
Role bonus : 99.9% decrease in CPU, cap usage, tracking and PWG of capital guns

and every 5 minutes, a plex appears in your cargo.
Bruce Kemp
Best Kept Dunked
#137 - 2013-07-02 12:47:24 UTC
That's it goons, separate the seeds from the chafe. Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2013-07-02 12:50:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Should be easy for no one.


Its much harder to set up a freighter gank than to make a freighter safe and requires at least 17 more people for the gank.

Lol. Its not hard at all. As you pointed out you make very high profits while sitting in high sec totally safe from harm. You're pretty much identical to the risk averse hi-sec miner except your profit is much higher. The miner has to worry about ganks and performs some effort. You bump a freighter and click a button once or twice.

If high sec pvers were as risk free and profitable as you, you guys would be screaming like little girls for CCP to nerf them. It benefits you, so you defend it. Thats pretty much the facts.


Fun fact. You can gank our t2 brutix and make a profit. Its also possible to gank our t2 catalysts for profit too.
We also operate while under several wardecs, have countless killrights on us and the freighters tbat scoop the loot can be shot at by everyone with no concord help. So no, we operate at a much greater risk.
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#139 - 2013-07-02 12:51:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Oh and…
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
WoW.
Every. Single. Post.
If you don't learn by history, you're doomed to repeat it.
Historical lesson #1: Don't ever try to copy or emulate WoW — it inevitably leads to failure and ruin.


Now all we need is a time machine and the 2005 personal cell phone numbers of the developers of Star Wars Galaxies.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#140 - 2013-07-02 12:58:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Should be easy for no one.


Its much harder to set up a freighter gank than to make a freighter safe and requires at least 17 more people for the gank.

Lol. Its not hard at all. As you pointed out you make very high profits while sitting in high sec totally safe from harm. You're pretty much identical to the risk averse hi-sec miner except your profit is much higher. The miner has to worry about ganks and performs some effort. You bump a freighter and click a button once or twice.

If high sec pvers were as risk free and profitable as you, you guys would be screaming like little girls for CCP to nerf them. It benefits you, so you defend it. Thats pretty much the facts.


Fun fact. You can gank our t2 brutix and make a profit. Its also possible to gank our t2 catalysts for profit too.
We also operate while under several wardecs, have countless killrights on us and the freighters tbat scoop the loot can be shot at by everyone with no concord help. So no, we operate at a much greater risk.



Yes but those are just facts. You can prove anything you want with those things.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016