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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Planetary Interaction 2.0 - (Cities, tax, terraforming and beyond)

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Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Doomheim
#81 - 2011-10-29 00:30:45 UTC
This is absolutely amazing. Great idea!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#82 - 2011-10-29 06:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
foxnod wrote:
I haven't been able to read the whole thing but so far I really like it. Just a couple of suggestions.

1. Battleships should also be able to conduct planetary bombardment.

2. All ships that conduct planetary bombardment must be sniper fit.


I am working on this and it will find its way into the next repost. It won't just be battleships tho, it will also allow frigates, destroyers, cruisers, bcs, shuttles and small industrials to do this.

However, all sub caps will have to actually fly down into the atmosphere of a planet (to within the odd 50km of the networks) in order to agress or land on the PI structures. This will make them vulnerable to Dust small arms fire. I purposefully do not want them to be able to fire on PI from orbit, nor do I want them to be target able by the anti-cap weapons on the planet.

Why not you ask?

1) Battleships will be too versitile. I had hoped that only Titans and dreads can fire on PI from orbit as to expand their roles a bit. Yes, I know we can sniper fit battleships to have the range of dreads and titans, but with this recent capital nerf, I think it only fair not to buff the battleship class with this ability since it would then be trespassing on capital territory..

2) Battleships will get instapopped by the anti-cap guns if we were to allow them to fire on the networks, and allow the networks to shoot back.

So a nice compromise would be to allow the battleships to fire on PI, but be put at risk of dust small arms fire.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
DrHenryKillinger
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#83 - 2011-10-29 08:18:19 UTC
my god.. this topic needs more support!

+1
Electra Frost
Stark Industriez
#84 - 2011-10-29 16:41:04 UTC
Spartis Reave wrote:
This is honestly the best thing I've ever read on the forums


This.

Massive read, but well worth it.

Make this happen please.
Brannsy
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2011-10-29 22:42:10 UTC
This would take a ton of time/resources to perfect, but with Dust incoming and the current (rather bland) state of PI it would be a very worthwhile feature to implement.


/support....if I could
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#86 - 2011-10-30 00:40:08 UTC
Dang another great player idea that CCP didn't think of so they'll never implement it. Anyway, your idea bloody good.

+1

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.
Daniel L'Siata
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#87 - 2011-10-31 03:32:28 UTC
Um....holy hell.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#88 - 2011-11-08 20:09:39 UTC
More comments please

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#89 - 2011-11-08 21:49:20 UTC
If we can come up with more superlatives, ya we'll give more (worthwhile) comments

Where the science gets done
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#90 - 2011-11-08 23:40:07 UTC
Great ideas from what I've read so far.

If CCP added features like this to the game many folks would rebel, and spit their dummies out about all that development time not being spent on pew pew spaceships, but I personally love the idea of Eve being a multi-multi-faceted game with lots of cool different stuff to try.

That variety of play in the end is what keeps players interested longer term and judging by the Dev post, I'd say you've now got more of their attention so keep perfecting these ideas.

My suggestions to you:

1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like.
2. Don't over complicate or over-specify your idea - CCP have plenty of game designers to work on the minute detail
3. Keep expanding the idea - You've possibly only scratched the surface of what you could do with a PI minigame

Don't give up, keep bumping because this could be the next dead horse. Once enough folks get on board the PI 2.0 train, the only destination is a better Eve! Cheers!
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#91 - 2011-11-09 00:00:50 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
...

My suggestions to you:

1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like.


This is a really good point, I think a lot of traction that the "Dead Horse" POS thread gained was partly because the OP had fleshed out images to couple with the concepts.

The funny thing is, anything that isn't pegs on a sphere is already steps in the right direction to be better than the current PI graphics.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2011-11-09 00:15:31 UTC
Now I'll be honest here, I didn't read all of that. I couldn't, my head doesn't do that. But it's clearly extremely well-thought-out, an incredibly good idea, and would almost certainly make me pay more attention to my one lonely planet.

Also I was expecting something much simpler, more like the Planet screen from Haegemonia: Legions of Iron (not sure if that was ever popular enough for anyone to recognize that?) but this is way more epic.

Comments etc:
- Would spaceships be able to land, Elite-style?
- Warp-in points for planets would have to be closer. Currently you warp in at a few hundred thousand k above the atmosphere, and that's a heck of a way to travel in a BS.
- As previously mentioned, Han Solo-style smuggling would be possible.
- Would additional defensive systems be able to be fitted to an arcology/biodome/city-saucer/perimeter wall in a manner similar to ship fitting?
- Would the entire underlying infrastructure of a city be able to be based on ship fitting? I see this as slots for 'scraper complexes, entire new districts etc, with extra slots being added by current-PI-style constructions.

Anyway hope this happens.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#93 - 2011-11-09 01:44:08 UTC
I think you have maybe opened a new facet to this threadnaught to cover

Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2011-11-09 05:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

My suggestions to you:

1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like.
2. Don't over complicate or over-specify your idea - CCP have plenty of game designers to work on the minute detail
3. Keep expanding the idea - You've possibly only scratched the surface of what you could do with a PI minigame


1. I'll look into it.

2. Despite that they had no ideas about PI when they did their refocus planning. Player owned customs offices? Spitting in the wind I say. The closest thing to a PI upgrade I saw was their future vision video that had some new planetary overlay with what looked like linked networks.

3. We hope to. But for obvious reasons, we don't want to go all Command & Conquer on its ass. At its core, Eve is still about internet spaceships. Not RTS styled interplanetary army pew pew by mouse click.

Jace Errata wrote:

Comments etc:
- Would spaceships be able to land, Elite-style?
- Warp-in points for planets would have to be closer. Currently you warp in at a few hundred thousand k above the atmosphere, and that's a heck of a way to travel in a BS.
- As previously mentioned, Han Solo-style smuggling would be possible.
- Would additional defensive systems be able to be fitted to an arcology/biodome/city-saucer/perimeter wall in a manner similar to ship fitting?
- Would the entire underlying infrastructure of a city be able to be based on ship fitting? I see this as slots for 'scraper complexes, entire new districts etc, with extra slots being added by current-PI-style constructions.

Anyway hope this happens.


1) Yes, ships will be able to land at spaceports. I'm fleshing this out and will hopefully have an update post ready in a while

2) We will have a new enter planetary Orbit function that takes ships to about 200km range above orbit into a designated stargate style warp in area. This area will be the border between space and the stratosphere.

3) The Han Solo stuff has been worked out. I'm just scratching my head over Chewbacca.

4) Yes. My initial post provisioned anti-capital ship defenses that would be Eve player controllable. Now I'm also working on anti-sub cap/anti-dust merc defenses that can also be purchased and placed. These will end up becoming massive artillery installations that can provide ground to ground/air bombing for Dust players. Subsequently, these turrets will not be controllable by Eve players.

5) I'm contemplating introducing a 4th PI command center, that of Social PI. This PI will be purely slot based and will allow for player structures, zones etc, similar to outpost office slots for corporations. It will require no fuels and will have no expenses to operate aside from the costs of setting up the facilities on its various slots. But, an adjustable corp tax can be levied on all goods sold and items produced/released/delivered via these slots.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#95 - 2011-11-09 11:11:09 UTC
There are some interesting ideas here.

What I would hope to see is that your 'civilian population', or work force determines the efficiency of your PI processes. In turn the political system, civilian structures and so forth determines to what extent your population grows.

For example using a slave work force has a short term benefit to PI processes but one which degrades over time as your population 'dies off'' (maltreatment etc etc) and the population reduces.

Using a 'democratic' work force increases population over time (increasing efficiency) but obviously takes longer to reap a return on that investment. Equally free workers can be taxed (though they might rebel).

Something along the lines of what the OP suggests though is what I imagined PI would in fact be when it was first promoted.

C.
Elder Ozzian
Perkone
Caldari State
#96 - 2011-11-09 12:04:19 UTC
Awesome idea! Also you could introduce the World of Darkness; Vampires in the cities and among the ordinary ppl.

I disagree!
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2011-11-09 17:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Quote:
Gas: (+3% default rate)
12% population growth rate per downtime
9% death rate per down time


i'm not sure this should be in the positive growth rate section

living in a gas giant would be extremely taxing on human physiology... from constant storms, the high gravity, high radiation, and insane pressures would make it hard for a population to growth at all.

however on barren/ice worlds it would be much easier for a population to grow due to the fact huge biospheres & underground facilities could be built to shield the citizens from radiation. Also the gravity and pressure on these worlds would be much more tolerable.

Moons should also be considered for population. Especially moons around gas giants.

but aside from that I like your idea alot

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Hallorin
Doomheim
#98 - 2011-11-09 18:30:06 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
[Part 6 of 14]

Planetary gun/missile emplacement (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + ammo costs)
(Places guns/missiles on planet surface in City that can fire from under City shield or without shield, similar to the stargate/POS gun setup) Damages non friendly (can be set via standings) capital ships only in orbit around the planet, firing on neutral Capitals by default (That have Planetary aggression timers) at similar rates to the stargate/station guns, but should pack a bit more punch since they are firing on capital ships, so the damage should be so much that a single dread without logistics will be unable to tank the DPS and will have to warp out or risk being lost to planetary fire. Sub capital ships will not be shot at by planet side guns, since they will be too small to lock onto. Likewise, sub capitals and carriers will not be able to engage structures or segments. Any Carrier that is remote repping Dreadnoughts or Titans with PATs will also receive a planetary aggression timer.




+1 to all these ideas. very good.

This in particular I like a lot. There's a ton of talk lately about orbital bombardment, especially with dust on the horizon, which gets me thinking, why wouldn't planets be shooting back?

Planet Guns!

see first 45 seconds of this for definitive proof that planetary gun emplacements are awesome
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#99 - 2011-11-09 20:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
*****Smuggling mechanism Draft v1.0*****

The context:
Individual players/small corps who will not be able to setup and safe guard Planetary Customs offices, or who simply choose not to pay the natives their taxes to use and pillage their planets, can land their ships in spaceports to collect their PI. They can physically load their PI goods into their ship cargo holds, provided they route their PI goods from their networks, via the PI-hub, to either a corp hanger (much bigger storage space, but can be tracked by the owner corp, intercepted and even locked down until their customs office clears your lewt) or a Starport (which will have a limited personal storage capacity of 30000m3 per player, similar to the current Incarna 1.1 customs office setup). Subsequently, corps can do little to prevent you from routing goods to the starport, but can setup ambushes or interception parties in the event that you do. Starports will have docking fees and notifications. If players choose to land on another corporation/alliance's starport, they will be notified of your arrival with a time stamp and a ship class. They will also be notified of the ship departing their starport. This same mechanism applies to starports of your own corporation, with regards to your comings and goings.

Standings (As set by directors or CEOs or diplos) can affect the docking fees (As set by CEOs), or even docking rights (As set by Directors, CEOs or diplos). Players with red standings, can be booted from the starport after spending 10 minutes or more in the starport (They will show up in the docked list - a new type of list to introduce, that works similar to the assets tab (delayed by 10 mins)). Personal items located in corp hangers will work under the same principle as to enable locking down personal goods of people who try to smuggle it off-world without permission.

Corporations who look down on smugglers, can then arrange gangs to either hover outside the starport and take down the ships as they take off, for a super time-dilated fight to the death in slow mo like Neo (due to the friction of the atmosphere and all that, no warping or mwds will be allowed until you clear the atmosphere), or they can wait for the would be Han Solos in space with bubbles at the planetary orbit entry/exit point. The starport itself would have a spawning area for ships taking off, a radius of 30km. This should give gang bangers and smugglers equal opportunity to have their cake and eat it if the planetary overlords had gangs of 5 or less.

All ships entering and leaving the starport would be vulnerable to Dust small arms fire, once Dust gets released and the Eve side of life catches on.

All covert ops ships will be able to cloak once they undock from the starport, as per the normal spawning at a stargate mechanism. Standard ships with t1 cloaks will not be able to activate these cloaking devices while in the atmosphere.
Black Ops ships will be able to warp out of planets into space as well as jump to cynos while in the atmosphere (To give them that sexy little boost they need). T3 ships with interdiction-nullifiers and covert configs can do the same.

Players who dock on their own personal/corp/alliance starports will not attract any attention from the other natives on the planet or space, unless they spot your network & starport and camp you out.

This in addition to setting up Eve side bubble gang camps at customs offices... if corps were so inclined.

Using this mechanism, players can smuggle their PI goods off world with a little bit more effort than normal, all the while bypassing the customs office and possible extortionist taxes and or non access.



*****Skills for smuggling profession v1.0:*****

Smooth Talk [3]

  • 5% reduction in customs taxes and docking fees per level
  • (Prerequisites: Social V, Fast Talk V, Negotiation V)


Smuggling [5]

  • +12 second delay in docking/departing notifications per level
  • (Prerequisites: Smooth Talk V, Trade V, Criminal Connections V)


Infiltration [8]

  • +10% chance to avoid starport docking/departure notifications per level
  • (Prerequisites: Covert Ops IV, Smuggling V)


Thoughts?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#100 - 2011-11-09 21:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
David Grogan wrote:
Quote:
Gas: (+3% default rate)
12% population growth rate per downtime
9% death rate per down time


i'm not sure this should be in the positive growth rate section

living in a gas giant would be extremely taxing on human physiology... from constant storms, the high gravity, high radiation, and insane pressures would make it hard for a population to growth at all.

however on barren/ice worlds it would be much easier for a population to grow due to the fact huge biospheres & underground facilities could be built to shield the citizens from radiation. Also the gravity and pressure on these worlds would be much more tolerable.

Moons should also be considered for population. Especially moons around gas giants.

but aside from that I like your idea alot


I was thinking of Bespin (Star Wars) when I was placing the Planets into those groups. Somehow I picture a floating Gas giant installation to be more habitable than some frozen Hoth hellhole. In Bespin you could actually sit on a bench outside and watch the sun go down. Hoth is a different story.

But I'm open to swapping those figures around if we could justify it with a valid enough point.






As for moons... I am contemplating a post about Moon Interaction and the death of POS based moon mining. Naturally, the same command centers could be used for MI, thus giving rise to moon cities etc.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!