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Doing away with external killboards - a (somewhat) complete thought.
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#21 - 2013-07-02 09:32:50 UTC
I've worked hard to make my killboard ******.

if you take that away from me, the chances of there being a hisec wardec corp dumb enough to fall for it are reduced even further.

don't ruin my already next-to-zero chances of completely humiliating a dumb wardec corp.
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#22 - 2013-07-02 09:33:55 UTC
I'd like to see the game improved this way, but seems the cancer won't be gone anytime soon, either deal with that or choose another game.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#23 - 2013-07-02 09:43:40 UTC
Why does it bother you that people admire their epeen?


If it is a silly thing for them to do, you should chuckle to your self softly about their quaint little obsessions.


Does the fact that they enjoy having a big epeen threaten you even though you don't want a big epeen....

....

.... is it that .. "people shouldn't be happy about things I don't think are important.. I want to take away their abilitly to feel special because no-one should feel special ... the fact they feel special is a threat to me because if they think they're better than me"

and maybe " people acting like they are better than me threatens my own self esteem because my self esteem isn't independent but depends on other people's regard for me".

Grow a set... I mispell and people can try to rattle me all I want but .. ya know.. while it is truly a combination of a disconect between when my mind moves onto the next though and the speed my fingers can go.. (I can't slow my free association nor can I speed my fingers)....

.. . I don't really care.. because.. I don't have a boss .. I've earned money in the world buying and selling things... sometimes I unfortunately had clients that I was accountable to and I had a duty (personal) to stay on top of.... but the best life is without employees or clients or bosses... your only gage of sucess is .. "did I like what I did today"

and..... what other people did has nothing to do with whether I enjoyed my hike or the sunset or if the financial report and 10ks and conference calls I listened to gave me any buzz from learning something new... curioustity.. .. thats what I live on ..... the reward of thining of something I hadn't thought o

or hearing an opinion someone has that is completely assinine but sort of fun because it was a new thought....

thats how I gage my day....

Free your self from the bonds of social approval and march to the beat of your own drummer...... enjoy things people do as an intellectual and an anthropologist and their admiring of the epeen becomes something interesting.

To try to gain some perspective... try to role play their perspective... be a chameleon and pretend you have a big epeen and admire it... ... did it feel good ?

lollllllllllllllllll

Common.. your self worth shouldn't be determined by others.

.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-07-02 09:44:11 UTC
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
I'd like to see the game improved this way, but seems the cancer won't be gone anytime soon, either deal with that or choose another game.


Like what game?

One on life support? Or the 800lb gorilla game that's equally messed up?

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Sex Slave Girl
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#25 - 2013-07-02 10:00:17 UTC
I think the OP is a awoxer. He wants his history records removed.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#26 - 2013-07-02 10:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomedes Calypso
Quick blurb about a pivotal time I freed myself.

I went to a top U.S. university.. one that people with all A's and top 5% test scores don't always get into. One with many Nobel laureates.


I was there to learn.. not to be judged. I didn't need to get grades.. i wasn't going to go to graduate school. I did like to TRY to get good grades on TESTS... sometimes I didn't hand in a paper worth 30 % of the grade because... well you can see typing isn't my forte.. or proof reading and we didn't hardly have computers and teachers wouldn't accept the papers in dot matrix form anyway and you'd need to retype the stuff. And

I came to realize that some teachers would fail me for learning on my own terms.

Some would give me an A based on what I did turn in and ignore what wasn't there (they probably thought they lost it if I was a good enough student to do well on the blue book exams... whether in calculaus/planar geometry, rhetoric, statistics, art history , or cultural geography. ( I wrote my own major on Historical Urban Development and a theisis covering the cutural political and economic forces involved in the early growth of Los Angeles ( the rail and the securing building of an artificial port and the buying up of water rights for a city of many millions when there were only 100k residents)

Some Professors would fail me for not turning in what I didnt' feel like.

That was their prerogative. They saw me as being there to get their approval

I saw myself there having the professors as people serving me... they were teaching me things... .. I was the customer.

We could both preserve our sense of who was there to do the wishes of the other in opposite ways.. we were both right even though the two thoughts were polarly opposed.

MY SOLUTION.. I took 6 classes instead of 5 That way I got to learn even more interesting stuff, and if some teacher wasn't cooperative and failed me, I'd still have enough units to graduate in time..

Using the "do what I felt like" (but I always enjoyed all the reading and the lectures....... and I did want to prove I could do well on the tests but was indifferent about turning in neat complete work on projects)

I'd get an A (i'd set the curve in my Business and Cultural geography classes which were often test only) in one or two. A B- or C in a couple, a D- in one and fail one... each of my last 4 semesters. The 6 class when I only needed 5 was the charm.

Like I said... I learned about more things.. it was all great fun because learning is fun... but if I wasn't interested or they assigned tedious things and didn't cut enough slack on what wasn't turned in I had insurance.

That.. is how you learn to utterly free yourself from the burdens of other's approval.. you set your own rules and become indifferent to the standards of others.

(and yes.. if i need to type business letters or lease terms I can do so with good grammar if I put my mind to it... I prefer letting my thoughts flow more Kerouac style..)

.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#27 - 2013-07-02 10:07:09 UTC
Quote:
It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat.


How is stupidity interesting gameplay? Furthermore, how is removing an incentive to PvP going to lead to more PvP, as that statement suggests?

Anyway, this has probably already been mentioned, but this is EVE. People will figure out a way to do it anyway. Even if you somehow figure out a way that they can remove the API keys that they use for internal killmails (yep, that's how they do it) without breaking the game.

And, as someone said, this also lets awoxing have free reign over the entire game. It would literally de-evolve into an awoxing, holding corporation cold war. That is, if, as would be inevitable, people didn't find a way around it anyway.

So the answer is, three different ways, no. Data is good.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#28 - 2013-07-02 11:25:53 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.


RollUghRoll

Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group. Blizzard could be in bed with Dream Paragon, even buff them, the fallout of that favoritism would screech the game to a halt...with the largest protests in gaming with all the media attention a #1 game can produce.

If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. Those who continue drop millions of dollars worth of development like a hot potato. The Art department gets ***** slapped hard in the process (and you don't want to lose them to competitors).

If devs tell their players to "l2p" millions leave the game. As players revolt against devs that are that arrogant. Ask John Romero how to sink a franchise overnight. Or Ghostcrawler, who sat in his Ivory Tower for half of Cata after all those death threats...if he even stepped on the forums he knew he'd be burned alive.

If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.

Don't repeat it!



Woah, ''If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. '' don't turn this into a T2BPO thread because T2BPO's are totally fair and new players can compete with them through invention Big smile
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-07-02 11:30:26 UTC
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
Woah, ''If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. '' don't turn this into a T2BPO thread because T2BPO's are totally fair and new players can compete with them through invention Big smile


lol

Players quit when they see there's nothing to show for what they worked for. Waste of time and money. They quit faster if they're helped, and knowing the devs aren't impartial, helps to usher them out the door faster.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
#30 - 2013-07-02 11:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna Djan
Destination SkillQueue wrote:


The score is on the sovereignty map - not in artificially bloated stats.



So as someone who doesn't give a flying f**k about sovereignty where does that leave me? :)

I like having kill boards, mine an't great, but i'm proud of it even if eve-kill doesn't link related kills properly. It helps me remember my mistakes :)
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#31 - 2013-07-02 12:02:32 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.


RollUghRoll

Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group.

STFU about wow please. No one cares about wow here.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-02 12:08:36 UTC
Tiber Ibis wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.


RollUghRoll

Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group.

STFU about wow please. No one cares about wow here.


WoW servers go down about now, and I guess why you're pissed off, right?

QQ moar!

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Andrea Griffin
#33 - 2013-07-02 14:13:56 UTC
OP is correct. Killboards do indeed prevent fights. I know this, you know this, everyone knows this.

Why? Isk efficiency. That ridiculous, terrible, meaningless statistic that every merc group, pirate corp, FW alliance, et al. drool over.

The result? "We can't fight those guys, it would be fun, but it's too risky - we don't want our efficiency to fall! Gotta keep that isk efficiency up otherwise we are terrible!"

I've heard it time and time and time again.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#34 - 2013-07-02 14:29:57 UTC
All the e-peen waving aside, I do see the point of killboards feeding intel to others. I've just been turned on to the idea of browsing killmails to find out what doctrines my enemies are flying, and while I'm not an FC or some expert EFT warrior, the power of this intel tool has not escaped me.

On one hand you could say remove it as it is bad for the game, but since everyone has access to it, everyone is on an equal playing field anyway.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-07-02 14:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Disco Doug wrote:

I would really like to see external killboards (aka "PVP Surveillance") be brought down - eve-kill, battleclinic, etc.
...
It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat. Less likely (more specifically "less incentivized") to do things which artificially pad and inflate numbers to make their internet ***** appear bigger.

No.

Your assumptions and amateur psychoanalysis of other EvE players motivations for having killboards is fail. Additionally, you sound like one of those ponces who say scores should no longer be kept for baseball or football games because it hurts the losers feelings. Social engineering types like you make my balls burn with fury, and you should go away, feeling very very very very bad about yourself.

Now, I will agree with you on one (unintentional) aspect that external killboards should be rendered obsolete only by creation of a better in-game killboard fulfilling the same role. I dream of the day I can right-click on a toon in game, and the 'show info' has additional tabs for their kills and losses, efficiency rating, etc. Same for show info on a corporation and alliance, tabs for showing kills and losses.

Would you like to know more?
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-07-02 14:43:25 UTC
Disco Doug wrote:
It would remove the ego.


Why is that a good thing? Ego is part of the reason many people play.

Quote:
People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat.


Note: When you say "interesting" in this context, it is understood by everyone to mean what YOU PERSONALLY find interesting. Sorry but the Universe doesn't revolve around you.
Disco Doug
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-07-04 08:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Disco Doug
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Disco Doug wrote:

I would really like to see external killboards (aka "PVP Surveillance") be brought down - eve-kill, battleclinic, etc.
...
It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat. Less likely (more specifically "less incentivized") to do things which artificially pad and inflate numbers to make their internet ***** appear bigger.

No.

Your assumptions and amateur psychoanalysis of other EvE players motivations for having killboards is fail. Additionally, you sound like one of those ponces who say scores should no longer be kept for baseball or football games because it hurts the losers feelings. Social engineering types like you make my balls burn with fury, and you should go away, feeling very very very very bad about yourself.

Now, I will agree with you on one (unintentional) aspect that external killboards should be rendered obsolete only by creation of a better in-game killboard fulfilling the same role. I dream of the day I can right-click on a toon in game, and the 'show info' has additional tabs for their kills and losses, efficiency rating, etc. Same for show info on a corporation and alliance, tabs for showing kills and losses.


Amateur psychoanalysis. That sounds like something you would say if you regularly also used the term "pseudo-intellectual".

Additionally, keeping score is only for the ego. There is no other purpose than to say "I won and you lost". Ain't much deeper than that, chief. I fail to see other motivational factors to choose from.

For the record, professional (and amateur) sports should keep score.

Also - I'm pretty sure you just said I make you horny. Not sure why your testicles burn for me so tenderly, but I'm willing to let that one ride this time.

I will not be going anywhere, sir. Big smile

Anyhow - on a serious note this post is not kneejerk to any lossmail or recent event. A poster above hit the nail on the head:

Regardless of the irrelevant drivel and stagnant argument (see Feyd) - it changes the way we fight. For the worse. And it needs to be pulled so people don't worry about others seeing their numbers and judging them - increasing butthurt across new eden.

Edit: Perhaps change what statistics are shown. ISK Efficiency is misleading and overly lauded.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#38 - 2013-07-04 12:03:18 UTC
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.


For truth and posterity.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#39 - 2013-07-04 12:52:09 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Tiber Ibis wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.


RollUghRoll

Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group.

STFU about wow please. No one cares about wow here.


WoW servers go down about now, and I guess why you're pissed off, right?

QQ moar!


Roll

No, really, please quit with the WoW talk, it's very annoying and makes it extremely difficult to take anything you say seriously
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