These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

best level 4 mission running ship
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#41 - 2013-07-01 15:46:40 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation Roll

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice. Smile

Edit; Yes I use EVE-HQ (Not EFT) to find the numbers for posting in here, but I get my enthusiasm from using the actual ship in Missions, Incursions, Ratting, and PVP.

I didn't care for how slow the Nightmare is and always dealing with cap problems.
I hate how short range the Vindicator is and rails just suck.
The Rattlesnake and all other Cruise/Torp BS's always felt like shooting from a POS.
A Mach feels light and quick, does massive damage and slips through a storm of rats like Leon ('The Professional' Movie reference). So when asked how I do missions in record time, how do I amass 10s of billions of PVE ISK, avoid gate camps and gank attempts, my answer will always be 'I do it in a Mach'.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#42 - 2013-07-01 15:54:49 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I'm not at perfect skills yet for it but not too far either. The mach is just heavily overrated now, especially with the recent changes to the ships I have been talking about. It still is a great ship and I'd be stupid not to acknowledge that but I just cringe a little bit in every "what ship for level 4s" thread everyone and their mother just defaults to "machariel" and it's simply not true anymore.


Agreed, I cringe as well best ship for LVL-4 is what you can fly and feel comfortable in, I did Missions in a Maelstrom for over a year, never lost it, and always made good ISK. I did complexes in a Tengu only lost one and paid for its replacement the next day, I did cosmos missions in a Harby and I always though that was a fun easy ship as well.

I usually ignore these threads, but somehow I got involved in this one. To the OP, if you like a ship for it's looks, its munitions, tank, or simply its cost then you can probably find a way to make it run LVL-4s effectively. So pick one and start running, the nice thing is you can always switch and train another whenever you like.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ginger Barbarella
#43 - 2013-07-01 17:41:28 UTC
Ellon JTC wrote:
Hi
Assuming you have the right skills and isk what would be the best level 4 security mission running ship?
By best I mean fastest. I want to get the missions done as fast as possible.




Does the search function not work here anymore???

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Ginger Barbarella
#44 - 2013-07-01 17:44:35 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)


5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te. Roll

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#45 - 2013-07-01 18:01:26 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)


5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te. Roll

Big smile wish I had money on that hand, love collecting easy money.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#46 - 2013-07-01 18:37:54 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.


ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything


Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Ecks Khan
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-07-01 18:55:18 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.


ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything


Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?




I've done that, it's fun, though i usually don't use a TP. Some times I drop sentries and afterburner around popping stuff ,using a drone link in the last high slot.

The speed makes tanking a non-issue and being up to 40 or 50 km from my sentries lets them pop the frigs that are my back in a volly or 2. The mach allows for "creative mission running" as i have heard it called.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-07-01 20:44:08 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


Because I have used all 3 and the Mach is the fastest out of the 3. It is significantly faster than the Dominix. No mission requires me to fight at 90KM. People who understand the methodology simply pop the triggers first instead of last and pull the farther spawns with a TP while shooting the closer spawns. That coupled with long range sentry drones create a much better damage projection than the Dominix and CNR. I have tested it both on PYFA and actual application over and over. Have you?




No mission requires you to fight at 90km but doesnt mean you shouldnt if you are able to.

Why would I spend 20 seconds flying towards something when I can shoot it from where I stand?

Your method of shooting triggers first is all fine and dandy, but unfortunately the rats that spawn 70, 90, 110km out dont magically appear within range after they aggro, most rats fly at under 400m/s apart from some frigates and it takes a significant amount of time for them to get within feasible range of the mach even if you're flying toward them.

Furthermore since rats don't always spawn in one nice big blob, they often spawn opposite ends of the deadspace area meaning that if you fly towards one group then you have to spend extra time flaying BACK IN THE OTHER DIRECTION to either get to the gate or the other group.

You've obviously never flown the dominix since odyssey and if you have you've been doing it wrong.

Art of Explosions
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#49 - 2013-07-01 20:52:41 UTC
Quote:

No mission requires you to fight at 90km but doesnt mean you shouldnt if you are able to.

Why would I spend 20 seconds flying towards something when I can shoot it from where I stand?

Your method of shooting triggers first is all fine and dandy, but unfortunately the rats that spawn 70, 90, 110km out dont magically appear within range after they aggro, most rats fly at under 400m/s apart from some frigates and it takes a significant amount of time for them to get within feasible range of the mach even if you're flying toward them.

Furthermore since rats don't always spawn in one nice big blob, they often spawn opposite ends of the deadspace area meaning that if you fly towards one group then you have to spend extra time flaying BACK IN THE OTHER DIRECTION to either get to the gate or the other group.

You've obviously never flown the dominix since odyssey and if you have you've been doing it wrong.


Yes, you should not shoot at targets 90km away if other targets are closer no matter what ship you are in. There is no ship that has 100% projection at all ranges.

I dont spend any time burning down at all so you are comparing apples to oranges.

The rats that spawn within 70k catch as much damage from my Mach as they do from your Domi. Its not Magic, its damage projection.

The Blockade is the only mission worth running that has rats spawn at opposite ends. I finish the entire mission in one bounty tick. I would love to see a Dominix do that. Love it.

Flying a Domi when you have a Mach IS doing it wrong.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-07-01 22:16:23 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:

No mission requires you to fight at 90km but doesnt mean you shouldnt if you are able to.

Why would I spend 20 seconds flying towards something when I can shoot it from where I stand?

Your method of shooting triggers first is all fine and dandy, but unfortunately the rats that spawn 70, 90, 110km out dont magically appear within range after they aggro, most rats fly at under 400m/s apart from some frigates and it takes a significant amount of time for them to get within feasible range of the mach even if you're flying toward them.

Furthermore since rats don't always spawn in one nice big blob, they often spawn opposite ends of the deadspace area meaning that if you fly towards one group then you have to spend extra time flaying BACK IN THE OTHER DIRECTION to either get to the gate or the other group.

You've obviously never flown the dominix since odyssey and if you have you've been doing it wrong.


Yes, you should not shoot at targets 90km away if other targets are closer no matter what ship you are in. There is no ship that has 100% projection at all ranges.

I dont spend any time burning down at all so you are comparing apples to oranges.

The rats that spawn within 70k catch as much damage from my Mach as they do from your Domi. Its not Magic, its damage projection.

The Blockade is the only mission worth running that has rats spawn at opposite ends. I finish the entire mission in one bounty tick. I would love to see a Dominix do that. Love it.

Flying a Domi when you have a Mach IS doing it wrong.



how on earth does your mach do the same damage as my domi at 70k? It's not mathematically possible.

Dominix has been completing blockade in one bounty tick even before this change, also would love to see how efficient your mach is fighting anything that isn't easymode angels.

Art of Explosions
stoicfaux
#51 - 2013-07-01 22:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Some considerations to consider:
* MWD Mach can kill frigates while closing the range (i.e. the DPS falloff is minimized)
* MWD Mach probably isn't going to use sentry drones much.
* Mach can kill frigates at range.
* AC800s have ~4 second cycle time, which means reduced overkill (as opposed to a CNR.)
* Guns can be split into two groups which helps reduce DPS loss to overkill and which allows you to kill frigates at range faster. (Splitting missiles into multiple groups increases DPS loss to NPC defenders.)
* Mach aligns faster.

Even so, given the Cruise Missile buff, the missile battleships overhaul and the Dominix re-bonusing, I would want to see completion times for the various hulls to see whether the difference is significant or not.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#52 - 2013-07-01 22:43:21 UTC
Cypher Jones don't bother, Tsukino Stareine is convinced that she has the perfect boat just like we are convinced we have the perfect boat. Only difference is I agree with you and she agrees with herself.

In the last hour I have completed Mordus Headhunters, Gone Berzerk, Buzz Kill and Damsel in distress.. but my Mach doesn't work against anything but angels,

leave crazy to crazy they only drag you in they never join you.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#53 - 2013-07-01 23:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Serpentis is as easymode to a Domi as Angels are to a Mach, or anything running Fusion + bouncers.

Quote:
Even so, given the Cruise Missile buff, the missile battleships overhaul and the Dominix re-bonusing, I would want to see completion times for the various hulls to see whether the difference is significant or not.


Still waiting to get "9/10ths of a wormhole" so I can test the TFI against the Mach. The gap has been bridged considerably, but still not completely closed IMHO.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-07-02 02:15:20 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Cypher Jones don't bother, Tsukino Stareine is convinced that she has the perfect boat just like we are convinced we have the perfect boat. Only difference is I agree with you and she agrees with herself.

In the last hour I have completed Mordus Headhunters, Gone Berzerk, Buzz Kill and Damsel in distress.. but my Mach doesn't work against anything but angels,

leave crazy to crazy they only drag you in they never join you.


ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)

Art of Explosions
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#55 - 2013-07-02 04:05:38 UTC
When I fly missions I do so in Amarr space. I fly my Nightmare most of the time (because it is flat out BETTER than everything else for shooting EM or Thermal weak rats) and for the occasional Angels Extravaganza I have a slightly pimped Mach. I use the Nightmare for Guristas also.

Goldiiee wrote:
I didn't care for how slow the Nightmare is and always dealing with cap problems.
I hate how short range the Vindicator is and rails just suck.
The Rattlesnake and all other Cruise/Torp BS's always felt like shooting from a POS.
A Mach feels light and quick, does massive damage and slips through a storm of rats like Leon.


Your entire post is based on how you feel about the ships. You have to realise that your feelings don't matter. What matters is maths, and maths doesn't believe in feelings. Your first two lines there are just completely incorrect.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#56 - 2013-07-02 05:22:47 UTC
Quote:
ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)


Because I'm a rookie and don't know how to counter.

Thanks for playing, I concede Mr Gore. You invented the internets and the Dominix is king.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-07-02 06:49:34 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
ok ill rephrase: go do a sansha, serpentis or guristas mission and tell me how good your completions times are when you're TDed, damped or jammed :)


Because I'm a rookie and don't know how to counter.

Thanks for playing, I concede Mr Gore. You invented the internets and the Dominix is king.



I'll translate this for people who don't speak fluent moron:

"I can't find a suitable rebuttal so I will draw upon the powers of archaic internet cliches to attempt to throw off anyone reading up until this point so they cannot see how truly foolish I am"

Art of Explosions
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#58 - 2013-07-02 06:51:08 UTC
eff the mach, navy apoc, tachs and a mjd. you clear even the hardest of missions with relative ease solo.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#59 - 2013-07-02 09:06:17 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)


5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te. Roll


12 minutes sounds doable to me, if he blows up the buildings and stops the spawns. That or he actually does the mission with 2 Machs.

I'd be surprised if he actually killed EVERYTHING with one Mach though in 12 minutes. That would be truly epic if you could do that and if true I'm retraining for a Mach ASAP.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#60 - 2013-07-02 09:32:57 UTC
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
I dual box Machs, two screens makes life simple, for instance Angel Extrav yesterday in 12 minutes including bonus room. Pulsed the XL booster 3 times cause the red shield annoys me :)


5 rooms of an Extravaganza in 12 minutes? I call bullsh!te. Roll


12 minutes sounds doable to me, if he blows up the buildings and stops the spawns. That or he actually does the mission with 2 Machs.

I'd be surprised if he actually killed EVERYTHING with one Mach though in 12 minutes. That would be truly epic if you could do that and if true I'm retraining for a Mach ASAP.

Well I spent a few hours yesterday trying to get FRAPS and several other Game video recording software on my PC, when I finally got Fraps on I went in search of the mission, but still haven't had it offered yet. When I do I will make a recording so I can stop being called a liar, :)

Dualboxing Machs one 800 autos the other 1400 artillery, always shoot the trigger BS with the arties, usually one shot pop them or so much that it is one or two cycles from the autos to finish it off, yes killed everything in every room including the turrets in room 3? so my friend in his noctis could come through. first gate to last rat took me 12 minutes two days ago, so if I can just get it offered again I record it and have another boring PVE video for everyone to fall asleep watching on YouTube

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.