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Time for EvE II

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Xander Det89
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#21 - 2013-07-01 09:51:19 UTC
EVE devs have already proven they're willing to tackle and rewrite insurmountable amounts of code, the game will grow into EVE 2 by itself... compared to where it started you could argue it already has.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#22 - 2013-07-01 10:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Xander Det89 wrote:
EVE devs have already proven they're willing to tackle and rewrite insurmountable amounts of code, the game will grow into EVE 2 by itself... compared to where it started you could argue it already has.


Oh believe me, we are way past EVE II, we're into EVE III already Bear

EDIT: Some might even say 3V3 lol.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#23 - 2013-07-01 10:44:34 UTC
Succesfully implementing and updating an MMORPG for so long, 10 years, is against any logic; as the OP says after 2-3 years MMORPG go in a mantainence status (no major implementation) or go for a "II", more convenient, brand new version (costing a global playerbase rebuild).

Is against any logic and convenience but EVE do it, and do it well.

As already pointed, we could consider to be at EVE III; the graphic engine had already 2 major rewrite, the UI got several major improvements and so on.

EVE is used to do things considerated impossible by the standards. It's kinda like the hornet (the insect, not the drone) paradox: according to the aereodynamic laws the hornet shouldn't be able to fly. But the hornet doesn't give a **** to the aereodynamic laws and keep flying.
Vherana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-07-01 12:01:06 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Succesfully implementing and updating an MMORPG for so long, 10 years, is against any logic; as the OP says after 2-3 years MMORPG go in a mantainence status (no major implementation) or go for a "II"

And that's why all newer MMOs failed!

With that line of thought, you may produce single player games - "it's boxed, let's move on"

A real MMO is no product, it's a service - with continued service, a MMO will live for ever.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-07-01 12:05:41 UTC
did you know that there was a game called farmville II? it tanked horribly and took farmville and zynga with it.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-07-01 12:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Games dont fail be because they are sequels they fail because they are bad. WoW is the most successful MMOin history. In many respects it was a better EQ II than EQ II. It improved on EQ where EQ didnt.

EvE is limited by its design. Its not an EvE II or EvE III at all. It still has session changes, grids, massive lag issues, compartmentalised space (zones)and a whole host of other issues that probably cannot be resolved by a rewrite of some of its code otherwise it would hsve been already. They cant even seem to change a small issue with OGB sithout a rewrite of core code.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#27 - 2013-07-01 13:20:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Games dont fail be because they are sequels they fail because they are bad. WoW is the most successful MMOin history. In many respects it was a better EQ II than EQ II. It improved on EQ where EQ didnt.


We see things from a players perspective. However a game success (or fail) is not simply related to his "quality".
WOW is a mediocre, fancy game, an EQ for dummies, simplified mechanics and standard graphics; It was an huge success due to market elements. Blitz was good (or lucky) to foresee the market direction and needs at that time and to match the users demand.

Same as for computer operating systems. Back in the history MS Windows wasn't the "best" operating system with graphic UI. But was the one conquering the market.
Evolution strugle do not reward the best or the strongest, reward the one more able to adapt to the envinroment changes.

But back to EVE, nobody here negate is an "old" game in need of a lot of rework. But they are doing it, and still is weird how they success. To be fair EVE was "old" already 4-5 years ago. But they were able to rework it pice after piece. If you browse the forum back 3-4 years you'll find CCP post where they explain how is impossible to work on the UI and on the inventory system due to the legacy code stratification. But then they did it.
Vherana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-07-01 18:45:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Games dont fail be because they are sequels they fail because they are bad. WoW is the most successful MMOin history. In many respects it was a better EQ II than EQ II. It improved on EQ where EQ didnt.

EvE is limited by its design. Its not an EvE II or EvE III at all. It still has session changes, grids, massive lag issues, compartmentalised space (zones)and a whole host of other issues that probably cannot be resolved by a rewrite of some of its code otherwise it would hsve been already. They cant even seem to change a small issue with OGB sithout a rewrite of core code.


1. EQ II failed, because SOE named it EverQuest TWO - never do this to an online game!

2. EVE
- session change will never go away - it's because of latency in the (client-server) connections, you have to take care of those random things

- massive lag issues can't be solved on the current set of hardware. Clustered home computers will never work at this scale Cool CCP can't move a system to another node/server without dropping every single client.
The solution would be to assign more cpu cycles to the system that needs it - this problem was solved decades ago Lol
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#29 - 2013-07-01 18:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
CCP is incapable to deliver decent expansion in years - yet alone whole sandbox game. Even if they'll start I'm sure it will take at least 5 years for them. Enjoy EVE 1 and maybe Star Citizen.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-07-01 19:03:00 UTC
Who says isk and assets can't be cloned into Eve II? I see a lot of people assuming this, but none bothered to ask why not. Or would you feel better to just call it "Eve" as opposed to Eve II?

Some of Eve's fundamentals, like 1 sec server ticks, was already outdated in 2003, and it's a flaming wreck now. It's where all your lag troubles stem from, and time dilation is a band-it that's hiding the festering wound. Aside from that, the POS codes is an octopus with tentacles everywhere, that can't be moved, much less fixed, by anyone other than the original genius that came up with it, who had apparently died in the following decades.Lol

There comes a point when the old car can no longer be repaired into satisfactory condition regardless of the resources you throw at it. And yes, you can move your precious pine tree air freshener into the new car.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-07-01 19:55:34 UTC
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Really if you want to look at nice graphics and burn your brain then go away and play a shooter.
I have already so much to monitor during a fight that there is no time to enjoy he graphics.
Eve is okay. POINT.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#32 - 2013-07-01 21:42:47 UTC
Nope - let the devs continue to work on the only "EVE" there is. This is where everything is anyway. I was years into Asheron's Call when Turbine released AC2. It cannibalized the AC1 population and AC2 never lived up to the expectations of a sequel to the original. Consequently, AC2 died with 2-3 years (iirc). AC1 is still going, but it's severely diminished from its heyday.

No EVE Online II.

I'm right behind you
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#33 - 2013-07-01 21:44:00 UTC

Howabout, instead of an "EvE II", they update the original EvE with free expansions, updating ships, updating graphics, adding new content, etc?

Oh wait....
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#34 - 2013-07-01 22:32:28 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Who says isk and assets can't be cloned into Eve II? I see a lot of people assuming this, but none bothered to ask why not. Or would you feel better to just call it "Eve" as opposed to Eve II?


Yes, theorically can be done. But if you make "EVE II" this mean you're going to redesign not only graphic, user interface and all this but also review/change core game mechanics, is not avoidable. This lead to redesign/rebuild your playerbase. Is a great risk/cost.

A company like Sony can face this risk. They can undo and trash good title, they always have resources and backup.

CCP is different, cause their main pillar is just EVE and EVE foundation is just in the long-term loyality of their playerbase. They should risk their main asset in the operation.

I agree that since Crucible EVE is on a mantainence status. I dislike to see as their new gameplay devlopement is focused on something else, other games, other platforms, I'd rather prefer to have all that focus on EVE, EVE gameplay need to be expanded, but this have to be done definining new areas and at the same time not destroying/dismantelling what is already consolidated.

Step by step.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-07-01 23:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Sura Sadiva wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Who says isk and assets can't be cloned into Eve II? I see a lot of people assuming this, but none bothered to ask why not. Or would you feel better to just call it "Eve" as opposed to Eve II?

Some of Eve's fundamentals, like 1 sec server ticks, was already outdated in 2003, and it's a flaming wreck now. It's where all your lag troubles stem from, and time dilation is a band-it that's hiding the festering wound. Aside from that, the POS codes is an octopus with tentacles everywhere, that can't be moved, much less fixed, by anyone other than the original genius that came up with it, who had apparently died in the following decades.Lol

There comes a point when the old car can no longer be repaired into satisfactory condition regardless of the resources you throw at it. And yes, you can move your precious pine tree air freshener into the new car.


Yes, theorically can be done. But if you make "EVE II" this mean you're going to redesign not only graphic, user interface and all this but also review/change core game mechanics, is not avoidable. This lead to redesign/rebuild your playerbase. Is a great risk/cost.

A company like Sony can face this risk. They can undo and trash good title, they always have resources and backup.

CCP is different, cause their main pillar is just EVE and EVE foundation is just in the long-term loyality of their playerbase. They should risk their main asset in the operation.




What are you talking about? Seriously, get a clue...

Most game mechanics are superficial, you can already make changes with minor value changes to code, you don't need a Eve II for that. Nothing, especially not graphics, need to change. Graphics engine is ran clientside, separate from server program. The only user client running out of server would be a text only thin client, I'd imagine.

The overgrown primeval jungle that is Eve's core code needs to be rebuilt to move on, or every addition will just get harder and harder, glitcher and glitcher as time goes on. Everything superficial, like graphics and (lol) game mechanics, can remain exactly the same. Unless you consider stuff like lag and 1 sec server ticker to be intentional game mechanics.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#36 - 2013-07-01 23:31:36 UTC
sabre906 wrote:


Most game mechanics are superficial, you can already make changes with minor value changes to code, you don't need a Eve II for that. Nothing, especially not graphics, need to change. Graphics engine is ran clientside, separate from server program. The only user client running out of server would be a text only thin client, I'd imagine.


Oh, really, the grapic engine run client side?! Separate by the server?! lol, what a new :)

Yes, and is what they already did and doing since years.

The one talking about an "EVE II" redesign (with transfer of ISK, assets and so on) was you. Improvements client side and server sides, optimizing databases, updating/rewriting the code and so on is not "EVE II", is not a game redesign.
It's simply what they alrready doing step by step.
But the topic of the thread was not this.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-07-02 02:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Sura Sadiva wrote:
sabre906 wrote:

What are you talking about? Seriously, get a clue...

Most game mechanics are superficial, you can already make changes with minor value changes to code, you don't need a Eve II for that. Nothing, especially not graphics, need to change. Graphics engine is ran clientside, separate from server program. The only user client running out of server would be a text only thin client, I'd imagine.

The overgrown primeval jungle that is Eve's core code needs to be rebuilt to move on, or every addition will just get harder and harder, glitcher and glitcher as time goes on. Everything superficial, like graphics and (lol) game mechanics, can remain exactly the same. Unless you consider stuff like lag and 1 sec server ticker to be intentional game mechanics.



Yes, and is what they already did and doing since years.






They have, in fact, done none of that. Everything they've done is either superficial or bolting on new sections with as little changes to the core as possible, afraid of the bugs it would introduce, for good reason. It's an aged can of worms that should be thrown away instead of opened.

The most drastic thing they've done is time dilation, a band-it on the 1 sec server ticks that everything is based on. It should just be done away with, and everything from that point forward will be far easier.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#38 - 2013-07-02 04:10:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Saint
I could see planet exploration as a pretty cool add on, but that's about it... but would only make sense if it was inside this game... like land your ship on a moon or planet, get out and explore in a space suit.

the dust thing really is just a FPS like so many others.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-07-02 05:37:57 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
I could see planet exploration as a pretty cool add on, but that's about it... but would only make sense if it was inside this game... like land your ship on a moon or planet, get out and explore in a space suit.

the dust thing really is just a FPS like so many others.

Check out infinity the quest for earth, theres a video that shows what it can do. Its incredible. Seamless space to planet flight, millions of clickable stars in space, no zoning / session changes. Its just an engine but its amazing.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Vherana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-07-02 09:42:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Check out infinity the quest for earth, theres a video that shows what it can do. Its incredible. Seamless space to planet flight, millions of clickable stars in space, no zoning / session changes. Its just an engine but its amazing.

Infinity is about 2 to 3 years from release, and they are aiming at making an "arena style game" first (that's MOBA, not MMO)

Even if they succeed with their arena, the planned MMO will not be on the same scale as EVE Online, not at release and not in the near future.

On their site, they are not talking about the server technology, if they try to use a clustered solution, they'll be hit by the same obstacles as CCP. Reality is a *****.

From the site:
Real-time fighting ( twitch based ) - good luck with that, latency will hit hit you in the face, more than 30 players at once will not work.