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Help on perfecting Jaguar fit: Little less DPS + MWD or Slow tackle?

Author
SyranSylTarr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-07-01 06:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SyranSylTarr
I'm building a solo PVP guy and after scrolling forums and EVE fitting websites for an hour or two, I ended up with this fit:



3x 150 Autocannon II
1x Nos I
**********************
1x J5b Scrambler
1x Exper. 1MN Afterburner I
1x Stasis Web I
1x Med Shield Extender II
**********************
1x Gyro's II
1x Pseudoelectron Containment Field 1 [DC]
2x Nano's II
**********************
1x Small Anti-Explosive Pump 1
1x Small Anti-Kinetic Pump 1



This has around 90 DPS with my learned skills, guns reach out to 1425m with falloff of 9015m, but a really slow speed of 800 M/S with AB running.
...so I messed with it. I changed a few modules around using INSTEAD:

1MN MWD I instead of the AB

**********************
1x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1x Micro Auxilliary Power Core I
2x Capacitor Power Relay II


So basically takes the Gyro off to be able to squeeze the MWD in. This gets 72 DPS, CAP STABLE at 1867 m/s rather than 800.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2 - 2013-07-01 06:23:17 UTC
I'd recommend sticking to T1 ships until you can get your skills up.
SyranSylTarr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-07-01 06:23:41 UTC
PS: What should I orbit targets at to get safe tanking but effective turret damage
SyranSylTarr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-07-01 06:26:16 UTC
My skills are perfectly fine, I'm not spending 100M on a T2 Webifier that doesn't really make a difference, but if you're just gonna reply with that can you tell me exactly what to train up?
Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#5 - 2013-07-01 06:26:24 UTC
If your toons skills are that bad I'd say saty away fron Jags for the time being and fly rifters/slashers as they are way cheaper and at lower skill lvls actualy better in terms of effectiveness for your SP.

There are laods of fits for both rifter and slasher that will do what it looks like you are trying to do with your Jag but for way less while you are learnign how to pvp and your toon ups it's SP a bit.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#6 - 2013-07-01 06:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Taoist Dragon
SyranSylTarr wrote:
My skills are perfectly fine, I'm not spending 100M on a T2 Webifier that doesn't really make a difference, but if you're just gonna reply with that can you tell me exactly what to train up?


No your skills are not perfectly fine if thats all the damage/speed you are getting out of this ship.

The T2 scram/web etc are not that expensive and give a few extra 100m's of range and % effectiveness. In a frig fight that extra few % can mean win or lose. And they don't cost 100m....

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

SyranSylTarr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-07-01 06:44:39 UTC
Oh forgot, I'm using Barrage ammos
SyranSylTarr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-07-01 06:50:20 UTC
Hmmm switchin to Republic Fleet Fusion puts it at 99 DPS instead, the range got a little worse. Im training AF to level 3 overnight too
Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#9 - 2013-07-01 06:50:43 UTC
Use a cookie cutter rifter

[Rifter, Standard combat]

Small Armor Repairer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I

Or Slasher

[Slasher, Brawler - MSE]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Shield Extender II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

[Slasher, Brawler - Armour TD]

Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I

Until you know what you are doing. You can fit 3-4 of these for the price of a decent fit jag and you'll learn a bunch of stuff without losing a lot of isk. Even if isk isn't an issue all you are doing is giving other player easy shiney kills.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Willie Horton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-07-01 08:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Willie Horton
SyranSylTarr wrote:
PS: What should I orbit targets at to get safe tanking but effective turret damage


It is situational .You need to know first what is other guy using ,and then determine what is best distance you need to keep.
Sometime keeping range is better than orbit.Orbit is never perfect it is more ellipse ,so you find you self wondering how he got me when I perfect orbit.You need to determine what ammo he is using ,what guns.What ammo you will use will be decide by type of their tank too,and what resistances they have ( T2 ships have better resistances for example).Take some time and look killmails on killboards ,that will give you idea of popular fits and than over EFT you will see what ranges are best for you.
All in all it is many stuff to read about,and it is simply trial and error.
You SP will only change something if you are fighting with equally skilled ( not SP) pilot,saying that players will lower SP but much better expiriance in PVP will close SP gap and in most cases win fight.

What other player said is best advice you can get,T1 frigates are now great and good platform to get expiriance.Cheep and less pain if you loose them.Going strait to T2 ships will not give you to much edge,and you will get less fights ,cause you need now more player wanting to engage you not to scare them off with better ship.

Dont get me wrong I am also in process of learning how things work,and T1 frigs are really way to go.Find some nice ppl to hang with and choose your fights wisely.

Best of luck in you adventures.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#11 - 2013-07-01 11:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
SyranSylTarr wrote:
My skills are perfectly fine, I'm not spending 100M on a T2 Webifier that doesn't really make a difference, but if you're just gonna reply with that can you tell me exactly what to train up?


YOur navigaion skills need work. I have a 200mm II plated wolf that does 2183 on your same mwd...with a resist pump rig fit. IF your jag is slower than me, you are wrong. I am not max navigation skill's. And my honeycomb skill is low (waiting to top her off when I hit int men spec in few months on a remap. Edit: for giggles and grins I ran 1mn AB and got 872 m/s on same wolf. I should not be faster than a jagaur with 2 nano's plated up.

I am assuming your rigs are a typo....or are you really boosting armour resists?

PVP does need cap stable. YOUr cap relays can be gyro or TE so you actually have some dps or tracking and range. Or if you must have them pull the nos and fit RL. You don't need the nos pulls. Or fit a neut. Nos would be more if going active tank to help run a small shield booster.

YOur MACP can be pulled and run ACR rig if your fitting skill is low by pulling a resist rig. Much better lows to be running than macp on an ac build. MACP besides for arty fits its a wasted low slot. Arty tends to need it. If still does not work, train fitting skills or spam some buy orders for pg implants as you will need them.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-07-01 14:56:34 UTC
I'm quite sure the best Jag fit is the one that doesn't use a Jag.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#13 - 2013-07-01 16:48:10 UTC
Assault Frigates: If you don't have the AF skill at IV, leave the jag alone until you have. V is better.

Your afterburner fit: You are passive tanked and waste fitting (and a slot) for a nosferatu. Bad idea.
Your MWD fit: You are a closerange ship with an MWD and aim for capstability. Bad idea. Like, double bad.

Use the afterburner fit, upgrade AB to Tech2, use a Meta 4 or Tech2 web, drop the Nos, upgrade to 200mm guns and try fitting in a rocket launcher. Also, your rigs are for Armor resistances, not for shield. Change it. And don't go for resistances if you're solo, go for more shieldbuffer. Resistances will only help you vs ships that deal exactly the damagetypes you rigged for, raw hitpoints will always help.
Don't use Nanofibers: They reduce your structure, which is important especially on frigs to keep as high as possible. Overdrive Injectors will work better.


The MWD fit is just plain bad and a MWD jaguar itself will only work in very few cases, in every other case you will get kited and die, or your target will just warp away.
God's Apples
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#14 - 2013-07-01 17:46:04 UTC
You have armor rigs on your shield jag.

[Jaguar, Shield AB]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II

This is pretty much the best jag fit I could come up with. It needs pretty much perfect skills to fly and will probably only work if you have perfect skills because the jag is pretty awful. It will project half of its dps (base of 204) out to 10km with faction if you don't have time to load barrage. Barrage also does 20 dps at 23km so you can force off some kiting ships but not all.


If you don't have skills to achieve these stats I suggest you stick with a thrasher because it's a more one-dimensional ship and works well even with crappier skills.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2013-07-01 19:50:33 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
You have armor rigs on your shield jag.

[Jaguar, Shield AB]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II

This is pretty much the best jag fit I could come up with. It needs pretty much perfect skills to fly and will probably only work if you have perfect skills because the jag is pretty awful. It will project half of its dps (base of 204) out to 10km with faction if you don't have time to load barrage. Barrage also does 20 dps at 23km so you can force off some kiting ships but not all.


If you don't have skills to achieve these stats I suggest you stick with a thrasher because it's a more one-dimensional ship and works well even with crappier skills.


This is a decent fit, although I tend to put a NOS instead of a rocket launcher in the high, and I prefer 150's over 200's (less range, better tracking == same applied dps in a close up brawl, although less dps if semi-kiting at 6-8 kms). I also don't plug the Kin whole, and go with Burst + Collision rigs. These are all personal tweaks you should make based on your preferences, the targets you typically engage, etc...
Whitehound
#16 - 2013-07-01 20:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I'm quite sure the best Jag fit is the one that doesn't use a Jag.

Yes. It has got one of the worst ship bonuses right now.

10% per level to optimal range makes little difference for auto cannons, and artilleries just does not fit my picture of an assault frigate. Only to show a fitting with artilleries:

[Jaguar]
Power Diagnostic System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Javelin Rocket

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

It flies 2941 m/s, is cap stable until the warp disruptor is turned on (and leaves 6min for an engagement) and deals at most 129 DPS. Engagement range is between 10km and 24km and it will get tracking issues at 10km range and below, especially against slow targets, but you do not want to get too close anyway. As mentioned above does it use all of the bonuses by fitting artilleries and running the MWD permanently, and it is just a sad combination for an assault frigate unless "assault kiting" is a thing.

A bonus to falloff would have been much nicer.

The next one uses auto cannons and is more of an assault ship:

[Jaguar]
Internal Force Field Array I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I

Same speed as above, but it deals 237 DPS. The ASB here gives a boost of 125 eHP/s.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#17 - 2013-07-01 22:54:18 UTC
Fly it like a man and kill lots

[Jaguar, Proper jag]

Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-07-01 23:43:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
God's Apples wrote:
You have armor rigs on your shield jag.

[Jaguar, Shield AB]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II

This is pretty much the best jag fit I could come up with. It needs pretty much perfect skills to fly and will probably only work if you have perfect skills because the jag is pretty awful. It will project half of its dps (base of 204) out to 10km with faction if you don't have time to load barrage. Barrage also does 20 dps at 23km so you can force off some kiting ships but not all.


If you don't have skills to achieve these stats I suggest you stick with a thrasher because it's a more one-dimensional ship and works well even with crappier skills.


This is a decent fit, although I tend to put a NOS instead of a rocket launcher in the high, and I prefer 150's over 200's (less range, better tracking == same applied dps in a close up brawl, although less dps if semi-kiting at 6-8 kms). I also don't plug the Kin whole, and go with Burst + Collision rigs. These are all personal tweaks you should make based on your preferences, the targets you typically engage, etc...


Fitting a Nos is bad, 150's don't really give you a noticable edge close up, you should have a kinetic rig.

In essence, Apfel is right and you are bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Chessur
Fweddit
Free Range Chikuns
#19 - 2013-07-02 00:00:20 UTC
If you want to fly a jag, why not use an arty wolf instead? Better in every way <3
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-07-02 02:56:29 UTC
Chessur wrote:
If you want to fly a jag, why not use an arty wolf instead? Better in every way <3


AC wolf is also better for that matter.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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