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Thoughts From a Noob Two Months In...

First post
Author
Troy D'Andrea
Infinite Existential Inc.
#1 - 2013-06-30 15:35:18 UTC
I love Eve Online. My main character is two months ago, and I love Eve so much I recently purchased three more accounts to play simultaneously with my main. As much as I love the game, I have had some thoughts of the past few months that I feel are glaring inconsistencies, obvious faults and horrid game design.

1) Low Sec Gate Camps

I know why people do it, and I don't think it should be all-together taken out of the game, but some re-tooling is definitely needed. What's the point of having sentry guns at low-sec gates if they do nothing to dissuade or prevent a pirate from carrying out an attack? I was recently killed multiple times by a gate camper who never took any damage from the sentry guns, even though he was red and was the aggressor of all the conflicts (I never attacked, nor even targeted him). And yes, he was on top of the gate, not out of range of the guns. I feel a gate-camp attack should garner some sort of extreme consequence. If not, just take them out of the game, because the strength of them are currently a joke, and only serve to help long-established players, and only hurt newer, less skill-point-trained players. I mean, the pirate is already getting a free target that they didn't even have to try and track/scan down, so why should a lazy player get rewarded easy kills? Make those damn guns HURT. Make the choice to attack me at a gate a costly one, versus trying to use your superior tracking ability to kill me when there is no security around. What if you made Concord show up, eventually, but just take a little longer? Wouldn't that be the obvious course of actions in the "real world"? Cops eventually show up at an event if there was violence, even if it takes them a while to get there, depending on the seriousness of the act.

2) High-Sec Ganking

To me, high-sec ganking seems like poor game design and an obvious flaw in game mechanics. It simply should not exist. I know, bring the hate - bring the triumphant cheers for tears, but hear me out. You have the majority of the entire galaxy to kill people, high-sec should be considered sanctuary in a game full of chaos. Again, like my last point about Low Sec Gate Camps, high sec ganking is a reward for unmotivated, unskilled and lazy players who don't have the ability to hunt down a player, they just try to do as much damage as they can before Concord shows up to kill them. That's silly. Either make it impossible to attack people in high-sec, or just remove the safeguards all together.

3) Let me Rename My Characters

Dear god, after ten years why hasn't this been implemented? What if I was a huge Penn State fan and I named my character Jerry Sandusky in 2008? Shouldn't I have a chance to get rid of a newly-known stigma? I mean, this is another micro-transaction that CCP should jump on at easy money. Look, I understand why it hasn't been implemented - you want players to be held accountable for their actions, and by renaming yourself it allows you to run away and hide from your evil deeds. Then use your creativity and come up with an easy solution. How about keeping a "aliases" log under their character profile, so that person's old name won't forever be gone, it just won't be a blaring reminder of a silly name they had in the past. It's not that hard CCP, c'mon.

The Eve playerbase better know how much CCP loves them. They better know the bad business decisions that have been made to keep the game hardcore and as real as possible. Think about all of the money CCP has thrown away by keeping the "street cred" with their elite, hardcore base? You've got 30-50k rabid fans of the game who play religiously... and I'm sure CCP isn't going to bed hungry anytime soon. But man, think about all the profit that could be made if just a few small, and inconsequential steps were made to slightly mainstream the game just a little bit. You could, instead, have millions of die-hard players instead of 30,000 ones. Props to you for keeping it real.

On that note, why hasn't CCP tried to sell the casual angle? I mean, you can spend your entire career in New Eden and never once attack someone if that wasn't your cup of tea. I think that is awesome! Imagine the fan base CCP could garner if they pushed an education angle of this game on schools and governments around the world. Think of all the subsidized income they could make by marketing the game to the casual space/astronomy geeks of the world who may not have an interested in space piracy and capitalism, but really love Star Trek and the idea of space archeology and science? I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.

Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile

Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-06-30 15:42:54 UTC
no
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#3 - 2013-06-30 15:49:43 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:


1) Low Sec Gate Camps


2) High-Sec Ganking


3) Let me Rename My Characters



Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile



1) Low sec camps were recently buffed and more content added to low sec so don't bother beating a dead horse.

2) Mining barges were buffed to make them hard to gank. Braindead people still can't cope and no one cares...dead horse.

3) I like this idea but we get to pick the name...I vote for 2moAlmost Burnt Out
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-30 15:51:30 UTC
"the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve"

Lol quality flame there.

I sympathise with your points, but you should be careful about stating this kind of seditious opinion.

And I personally can't see any use for a character rename option <_<

:D

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-30 15:52:13 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
2) High-Sec Ganking

To me, high-sec ganking seems like poor game design and an obvious flaw in game mechanics. It simply should not exist.


Two of the core premises of EVE's design.
- Nowhere is safe.
- Anyone can ruin anyone else's day, any time, anywhere. They must just accept the consequences of that action.

Highsec should not be safe. It's not intended to be safe. It's intended to be safer, that's all. Hence highsec ganks are not a flaw in the game's design, they're an intended, deliberate part of that design.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-06-30 16:52:59 UTC
Education angle? I can see it now - "Ok kids, today we're going to learn about smacking up local." I see no way in which this could go wrong.
Aina Tutusaus
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-06-30 16:56:30 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.


Woah! I have read lots of things about Eve. But that it was aimmed to teenagers? That's new. But yeah, if something can be said in a forum, someone will say it. A usual teenager will go over eve when he discovers all the effort you have to take to learn the game. They have games with less serious comunities where they can be smashing things in the first hour. Lol.

Anyway. If you are angry because someone killed you it is easier to thing it has been a 15 old boy with no brain than a experienced adult player who tried to ruin your day. If you feel better, go with it.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-06-30 17:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Quote:
1) Low Sec Gate Camps

I'm routinely under gate-gun fire and I have only this to say; if you have no support and/or logistics ships... they hurt. A lot.
Frigates go poof in one or two shots. Destroyers last about 3 or 4. Tech 1 cruisers have about half their normal staying power.

Beyond cruiser level though the campers run into a problem... their ability to lock on to targets becomes terrible (because the larger the ship, the slower the locking time). They can get around this by using Sensor Boosters and/or Remote Sensor Boosters... but these mods tend to gimp the camping ship and remove its ability to do anything else.

Oh... and campers lose security status whenever they aggress a neutral person. Once you go below -5.0 you can't go into high-sec without getting shot at by the Faction Police (not to be confused with CONCORD).

Quote:
2) High-Sec Ganking

It's not shoddy game design. An oversight, yes. CCP didn't originally intend for it. But it happened and the DEVs praised the ingenuity of the players.
That was ~9 years ago.

Today... there is an understanding that it is necessary for the economy as ever more clever miners, industrialists, carebears and their ilk find ways to avoid war decs and warfare. After all... how can you declare war on and destroy your enemy's industrial support when it resides in (or can escape to) an NPC corp?

There is also the core principles of EVE to consider... one of them being "there is no safe place."
Once you start allowing for "safe zones" in EVE you'll find that everyone, even the most hardened players out there, will take full advantage of it (because you'd be stupid not to) and move any assets they don't want to be put at risk to such an area. This is especially true for miners and industrialists.
Once free of the possibility of conflict or interruptions, they could then affect the rest of EVE without fear of anyone stopping them.

Quote:
3) Let me Rename My Characters

The subject comes up from time to time. Some people like it... others don't see a need for it... and then there are those who just think it will add needless complications and exploits.

I'm firmly in the last camp.
Basically, your name in EVE is linked to your reputation... for better or worse. You allow for name changes then people with a lot of infamy will start covering their tracks.
Now, you CAN counter this by creating a name history tab in the profile window (similar to corp history), but honestly, it would take away people's ability to immediately recognize someone they dislike. And if you have racked up enough of a name history, no one is going to look through all of them to see if there is a moniker they recognize.
As for the argument, "this is already possible because you can just create an alt!"... yes, you could do that. But then you'd have to start from scratch again in terms of skillpoints. Renaming your character allows you to keep everything while (somewhat) escaping your history.


Quote:
why hasn't CCP tried to sell the casual angle? I mean, you can spend your entire career in New Eden and never once attack someone if that wasn't your cup of tea.

Because most other games try doing that. And unless they are WoW or F2P, such games usually experience a huge spike in player population followed by an equally steep fall once they reach "maturity."


edit: 2 last things OP...

- try your hand at gatecamping and suicide ganking. They are not as easy as they appear to be.
- the average age of people in EVE is mid to late 20s. And at Fanfest I was seeing 50s, 60s, and some 70 year olds. Shocked
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#9 - 2013-07-01 02:50:14 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.

Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile



Average player age for EVE is around 30 which last I heard is the highest of any MMO out there. I think you are the young kid on the block trying to force unwanted change on a more mature gaming audience.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

Silas Sedal
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-07-01 03:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Sedal
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
Education angle? I can see it now - "Ok kids, today we're going to learn about smacking up local." I see no way in which this could go wrong.


You know, I was just browsing the forum trying to garner a few tips when I skimmed your signature. It's been a minute or two and I'm still chuckling at it.

Well done.That really does sound like an immersive combination.

Simply the worst capsuleer there's ever been.

Capt Gauss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-07-01 03:36:39 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.

Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile



Average player age for EVE is around 30 which last I heard is the highest of any MMO out there. I think you are the young kid on the block trying to force unwanted change on a more mature gaming audience.


I'm an 18 year old and this level of immaturity is unheard of.

It brings shame to the name of the younger generation!!!

As a highsec carebear with PI's in lowsec, I love the intense feeling of adrenalin when I narrowly escape with my precious cargo. I'm yet to reach my month birthday!
Maika Mabata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-01 09:11:34 UTC
1. Even low-SP can counter gate guns. If you know what you are doing. CONCORD isn't in low-sec cause low-sec isn't high-sec.

2. NO. just NO. Removing ganking from high-sec makes it too safe and that isn't EVE. It would also be heavlily exploited. You are demnading a risk free enviroment. It ain't going to happen, if you want risk free gaming, plenty of other games will suit you.

3. Again, NO. Cause actions matter, including picking a good name. If name changes are able people will gank people and just change their name to escape consequences etc.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#13 - 2013-07-01 11:23:58 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
To me, high-sec ganking seems like poor game design and an obvious flaw in game mechanics.


You know nothing John Snow. Lol
Lilliana Stelles
#14 - 2013-07-01 12:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilliana Stelles
There was a dev blog back before crimewatch came out (or maybe it was last year's fanfest) that announced long-term plans to rebalance sentry gate guns so that they'd increase in damage over time, eventually gaining the capability to even kill a carrier if it camped there for long enough. The idea was to keep people moving.

Dunno if they'll revisit the idea or not, but the devs are definitely always working on keeping things from getting stale, lowsec gate camps included.

tl;dr, it's probably being worked on already.

Not a forum alt. 

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#15 - 2013-07-01 15:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
I love Eve Online. My main character is two months ago, and I love Eve so much I recently purchased three more accounts to play simultaneously with my main. As much as I love the game, I have had some thoughts of the past few months that I feel are glaring inconsistencies, obvious faults and horrid game design.

1) Low Sec Gate Camps
I know why people do it, and I don't think it should be all-together taken out of the game, but some re-tooling is definitely needed. What's the point of having sentry guns at low-sec gates if they do nothing to dissuade or prevent a pirate from carrying out an attack? I was recently killed multiple times by a gate camper who never took any damage from the sentry guns, even though he was red and was the aggressor of all the conflicts (I never attacked, nor even targeted him). And yes, he was on top of the gate, not out of range of the guns. I feel a gate-camp attack should garner some sort of extreme consequence. If not, just take them out of the game, because the strength of them are currently a joke, and only serve to help long-established players, and only hurt newer, less skill-point-trained players. I mean, the pirate is already getting a free target that they didn't even have to try and track/scan down, so why should a lazy player get rewarded easy kills? Make those damn guns HURT. Make the choice to attack me at a gate a costly one, versus trying to use your superior tracking ability to kill me when there is no security around. What if you made Concord show up, eventually, but just take a little longer? Wouldn't that be the obvious course of actions in the "real world"? Cops eventually show up at an event if there was violence, even if it takes them a while to get there, depending on the seriousness of the act.
Lowsec gatecamps are fine, they're not all-pervasive and relatively easy to avoid with some intel gathering and planning using the ingame map and external sites like DotLan.
Quote:
2) High-Sec Ganking
To me, high-sec ganking seems like poor game design and an obvious flaw in game mechanics. It simply should not exist. I know, bring the hate - bring the triumphant cheers for tears, but hear me out. You have the majority of the entire galaxy to kill people, high-sec should be considered sanctuary in a game full of chaos. Again, like my last point about Low Sec Gate Camps, high sec ganking is a reward for unmotivated, unskilled and lazy players who don't have the ability to hunt down a player, they just try to do as much damage as they can before Concord shows up to kill them. That's silly. Either make it impossible to attack people in high-sec, or just remove the safeguards all together.
Highsec is safer than everywhere else, it is however not completely safe. Ganking isn't generally carried out by unmotivated, unskilled and lazy players, it's actually quite the opposite. Gankers are motivated enough to team up with others, they're so lazy that they have their own intel networks and use real world and specialised ingame skills/knowledge to attain their goals.
Quote:
3) Let me Rename My Characters
Dear god, after ten years why hasn't this been implemented? What if I was a huge Penn State fan and I named my character Jerry Sandusky in 2008? Shouldn't I have a chance to get rid of a newly-known stigma? I mean, this is another micro-transaction that CCP should jump on at easy money. Look, I understand why it hasn't been implemented - you want players to be held accountable for their actions, and by renaming yourself it allows you to run away and hide from your evil deeds. Then use your creativity and come up with an easy solution. How about keeping a "aliases" log under their character profile, so that person's old name won't forever be gone, it just won't be a blaring reminder of a silly name they had in the past. It's not that hard CCP, c'mon.
Decisions have consequences in Eve, including your choice of name.
Quote:
The Eve playerbase better know how much CCP loves them. They better know the bad business decisions that have been made to keep the game hardcore and as real as possible. Think about all of the money CCP has thrown away by keeping the "street cred" with their elite, hardcore base? You've got 30-50k rabid fans of the game who play religiously... and I'm sure CCP isn't going to bed hungry anytime soon. But man, think about all the profit that could be made if just a few small, and inconsequential steps were made to slightly mainstream the game just a little bit. You could, instead, have millions of die-hard players instead of 30,000 ones. Props to you for keeping it real.

On that note, why hasn't CCP tried to sell the casual angle? I mean, you can spend your entire career in New Eden and never once attack someone if that wasn't your cup of tea. I think that is awesome! Imagine the fan base CCP could garner if they pushed an education angle of this game on schools and governments around the world. Think of all the subsidized income they could make by marketing the game to the casual space/astronomy geeks of the world who may not have an interested in space piracy and capitalism, but really love Star Trek and the idea of space archeology and science? I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.

Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile
Millions of players on a single shard would be a hardware nightmare, unlike most games we all play on a single server, not several servers with no interaction between them. Longevity wise most MMOs rise and fall spectacularly within 18 months, Eve's been around for 10 years increasing its subscriptions to 500k+ while holding on to people who've been playing since beta, mostly because of its hardcore nature.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#16 - 2013-07-01 15:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
And I ran out of characters ..
Welcome aboard OP, the best advice I can give you is

  • Never fly anything you're not comfortable with losing
  • If it looks too good to be true, it's a scam. If it looks OK, look again, its a well disguised scam
  • PvP in Eve is like a kitten, it can happen to anybody, anywhere
  • Know your enemy, intel is everything
  • Trust no one, especially your friends Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#17 - 2013-07-01 17:51:10 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:


1) Low Sec Gate Camps


2) High-Sec Ganking


3) Let me Rename My Characters



Thoughts?Big smileBig smileBig smile



1.) Low Sec Gate camps are pretty much fine as is. The sentry guns do decent damage, so most cruisers and smaller can't tank them for long. A small boost to their dps wouldn't be a terrible thing, but they don't need to be omgwtfpwn deathrays.

2.) High-sec ganking is awesome. While I don't do it, I believe it really enhances the "bad **** can happen anytime, anywhere" motif of EvE. Really, it is easy to avoid getting ganked in highsec, as long as you are smart about how you fit and fly your ships. The idea of a "sanctuary", where you are immune to hostile actions, should NOT exist in this game!!!! If it did, every pacifist industrialist would abuse the hell out of that region to build and acquire assets risk free. No matter where you are, you can lose your ship and you can get scammed for massive amounts of isk. Safety in EvE doesn't come from enforced game mechanics... it comes from you making smart choices! And it is never absolute!

3.) Renaming your character has been brought up in F&I section quite often. Do a search, and show your support in one those threads (don't start a new one!). I personally don't care if you "rename" your character, so long as your old "character" information is transferred and retained (i.e. no plex for anonymity, only plex for a cosmetic change, where anyone doing 2 seconds of research can find you previous aliases, corp history, and the like).
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-07-01 18:53:49 UTC
Troy D'Andrea wrote:
1) Low Sec Gate Camps

I know why people do it, and I don't think it should be all-together taken out of the game, but some re-tooling is definitely needed.


Nah.

Quote:
2) High-Sec Ganking

To me, high-sec ganking seems like poor game design and an obvious flaw in game mechanics.


Source: Not a game designer. There are no truly safe zones in EVE and that's one of the things that makes the game unique and amazing. It has worked fine for over a decade; you're not the first to think it's "bad design" and you won't be the last but it has worked fine for over a decade and trust me this exactly complaint was being parroted about in 2003.

Quote:
3) Let me Rename My Characters

Dear god, after ten years why hasn't this been implemented?


Because actions in EVE have consequences.

Quote:
What if I was a huge Penn State fan and I named my character Jerry Sandusky in 2008?


Extreme. Write a petition.

Quote:
if just a few small, and inconsequential steps were made to slightly mainstream the game just a little bit. You could, instead, have millions of die-hard players instead of 30,000 ones. Props to you for keeping it real.


Nah. "Mainstream" players have their games. WoW and SWTOR. A few changes to EVE aren't going to pull them away, but sure could kill the hardcore following EVE does have rather quickly.

Trust me mate, they're doing fine without your pro tips.
Maika Mabata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-07-02 08:17:36 UTC
Quote:
The Eve playerbase better know how much CCP loves them. They better know the bad business decisions that have been made to keep the game hardcore and as real as possible. Think about all of the money CCP has thrown away by keeping the "street cred" with their elite, hardcore base? You've got 30-50k rabid fans of the game who play religiously... and I'm sure CCP isn't going to bed hungry anytime soon. But man, think about all the profit that could be made if just a few small, and inconsequential steps were made to slightly mainstream the game just a little bit. You could, instead, have millions of die-hard players instead of 30,000 ones. Props to you for keeping it real.

On that note, why hasn't CCP tried to sell the casual angle? I mean, you can spend your entire career in New Eden and never once attack someone if that wasn't your cup of tea. I think that is awesome! Imagine the fan base CCP could garner if they pushed an education angle of this game on schools and governments around the world. Think of all the subsidized income they could make by marketing the game to the casual space/astronomy geeks of the world who may not have an interested in space piracy and capitalism, but really love Star Trek and the idea of space archeology and science? I really feel there could be an untapped source of revenue for CCP if they really broadened their vision and looked to service a little more mainstream of an audience than the high school angst-ridden teenagers they currently serve.


This still makes me laugh.

A new player saying CCP should change the game. While EVE is 10 years old and only GREW in sub numbers.

Apparently they already do it right. CCP always said that EVE would be different. The players in EVE play the game cause they like it as it is, they don't want WoW-in-space.
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-07-02 09:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson
You know, there is one reason why high sec camping and ganking should be kept in game.

A few months ago I tried another game, I forget the name, Penumbra or something like that. It is an open sand box mech/robot type game. But it is obvious that the developers have been inspired strongly by Eve.

However, the one big difference, other then mech/robots rather then space ships, is that their version of high sec is 100% safe.

And even though I am an Industrial player with a bit of closet carebear in me, that killed the game completely for me. It made it feel flat and unintresting.

High sec piracy might have come about due to an oversight on CCP's part, but it does add a bit of spice to the game. Eve would loose too much if they took it away.
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