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So last night I got killed for the first time...help me out.

First post
Author
Enochx Kaine
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-01 14:44:58 UTC
So last night was the first time I ever got attacked by another player....I lost both of my destroyers, my exploration frigate, and got podded twice. (at least I got away with my pod once right?) But I got a few questions about why I lost and how he did some of the things he did... He was flying a frigate of some kind....I didn't see what kind because everything happened so fast....it was my first fight against a real person.

First of all, I was in 0.4 space and he was blinking yellow to me and when I clicked on his info it said he was WANTED. That means he has like a really low Security Status right? I have high securitiy status...mainly because I just started the game and I JUST finished the sisters of eve epic arc. So the police leave me alone. But why didn't they help me out? We were right outside a station and I even saw the warning flash across the screen when he opened fire on me. The one that says "(players name) you have violated blah blah blha) whatever it says...you know the one. But no one ever fired on him except for me.

So the first ship he killed me in was my Heron. I was just out probing and exploring. I had no cargo, no weapons, hardly anything at all. I was just heading to this station in this 0.4 system to pick up a skill book I had bought at the market. I figured I would get some exploring done on the way....( My first time exploring, too. And I found a couple of things that were worth 5 mill each on the market. That's good for the first time I think) But he bascially just killed me for no reason. Which is fine and all, I am just saying. I was no threat and had nothing of value. Luckily I somehow manage to be quick enough to warp my pod out of there quick like.

But naturally I got pissed, so I grabbed my destroyer. I got in my Commerant. Decked out in Railguns and a pretty decent shield tank and all that. You know, it probably wasn't the best, but I got decent compliments from the few people I showed it to. So it wasn't bad. It had a Medium shield extender on it, so thats good. Anyway, I warped in and wasn't thinking or anything. I didn't try to play my range advantage. I blasted him good once or twice, but then he got right up on me....like 1000 meters and that efffectivly made my railguns usless. He had me stasised and warp scrambled so there was no escape. Still, I almost had him. I got his Shields down before he closed the distance with me and I got maybe a third of his armor down. BUt needless to say he killed me. Then he podded me.

So NOW I am really pissed. I sit at teh station where my clone is and think for a second. "I need a plan" I says to myself. "I almost had him flying in like a moron. If I am just a little bit smart, I can take this guy no problem." So I grab my Corax. I think I like missles more than guns anyway, so I think to myself "I gots this." I get ready to warp to the station where the guy and my two wrecks are. Except this time, I try to use a little strategy . keep in mind....this is my first fight. Don't forget that because it is important----that is why I am asking for advice---obviously I don't know what I am doing. Anyway, this time I try to use my advantages against him. I warp to within 30 km so that I can hit him with my missles, but he can't do anything to me. Clearly he is using blasters right? That's why he keeps getting right up on me....right? So I warp in...30 km from the station. My missles can go something like 43 km. But this guy is like 20 or 30 km BEHIND the station. Which makes him like 70km away from me. not only can I not hit him with my missles yet, I can't even get a lock. In my haste, I also forgot to put an afterburner or MWD on..so I am super slow. "CRAP!!!' I think to myself. So I slowly try to close the distance. He is just sitting there...I don't know if he is sizing me up or scanning me or what. But he warps away. I think to myself, "yeah...I had him. He knew it so he bailed." So I approach one of my wrecks....I want whats left of my stuff back. As I was heading towards one of my wrecks, I noticed that he only warped to 183km away. Then all of a sudden, he warps back in...like below and to the right of me. He is only like 15 or 20km away from me and for some reason I can't lock on to him. It wouldn't let me lock on to him until AFTER he locked on to me. By then, he was almost right on top of me. I couldn't run, so I just tried to fight. I seem to be better with missles, and I ALMOST had him agani. This time I got his shields and armor completely down.....but natuarlly he killed me. THen he podded me. Then it was late and I said "EFFF it. I am going to sleep."

So here are my questions:

1--why didn't the police or Concord help me? Not even a freaking sentry gun or nothing.

2--How did warp to 183km away from me? Basically in the middle of nowhere. How did he do that? Why would he do that? Is this a common strategy? If so, I need to learn it

3--What could I have done differently? I tend to lean towards long range combat. My philosophy is to attack them at a distance and keep them from hitting me as opposed to just trading punch for punch right up close with each other. So what could I have done? My web Stasis was usless because it only works at 10km. I didn't have a scrambler on, but that only keeps them from using their warp and MWD right? He can still use afterburner and most people USE afterburners...right?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-07-01 14:50:50 UTC
1) No concord in lowsec. 0.4 is lowsec.
The sentry guns would have fired at him, they can be tanked.

2) You can make bookmarks in space and warp to them. He may well have spent the time making various tactical bookmarks around the station if it was a station he frequently uses.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-01 14:55:26 UTC
As for what killed you:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18509179
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18509177
Blaster-fit Incursus.

Common fitting mistake on that Cormorant. Don't dual-tank. You had a shield extender and an armour repairer. One or the other, you shield tank or you armour tank, not both.
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-01 15:06:14 UTC
I think you have the right attitude, I think you will do well in eve.

Enochx Kaine wrote:

1--why didn't the police or Concord help me? Not even a freaking sentry gun or nothing.

You were in low security space (0.4). Police (concord) is in 0.5 or higher.

Enochx Kaine wrote:

2--How did warp to 183km away from me? Basically in the middle of nowhere. How did he do that? Why would he do that? Is this a common strategy? If so, I need to learn it


He has a bookmark at that location he warped to. What you do is you take a fast ship, fly out there when you're far enough, make a bookmark. (minimum warp range is 150km).

As you've seen, it is an effective way to dictate range and to close a gap between you and something else.


Enochx Kaine wrote:

3--What could I have done differently? I tend to lean towards long range combat. My philosophy is to attack them at a distance and keep them from hitting me as opposed to just trading punch for punch right up close with each other. So what could I have done? My web Stasis was usless because it only works at 10km. I didn't have a scrambler on, but that only keeps them from using their warp and MWD right? He can still use afterburner and most people USE afterburners...right?


He was way more prepared then you were (since he had bookmarks setup all around). But you're fight (both fights) were really close I read through you're story.
I think you made the right call when you switched to a different weapon system. As you've noticed you're railguns didn't really effect him once he got under your range, and missiles don't really care about that.
Maybe if you had blasters you could've gotten him, but you'd need to slow him down with a webber of you're own in order to hit him. But that is pure speculation. Maybe even better skills would've made the difference.

Maybe manual piloting could make it harder for him to get in range, but that totally depends on the situation and it would require a prop mod ofcourse.

Obviously you missed a prop mod, but you knew that already :p
Lilliana Stelles
#5 - 2013-07-01 15:19:01 UTC
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=20003567

Seems you diagnosed this fairly well. He was using blasters, the thing to do is to keep him at range.

The reason you couldn't lock him is because he was still warping in, warping out, docking, or undocking... there's a slight invuln timer during each of those periods as you arrive on the grid.

Not a forum alt. 

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-07-01 15:54:41 UTC
So the other thing you seemed to be on the edge of grasping, is that in low sec you can get your pod out (and save your implants) 9 times out of 10.

As soon as you're in structure, and assuming he isn't and you know you are going to lose, quickly click any planet in the overview, and spam the 'warp to' button.

The pod will enter warp much faster than it can be targeted, unless they're using SeBo's, and you will get away.

But well done for taking it like a man. You probably learned more about the game that night with the adrenaline pumping, than in a whole week tootling around hi sec.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#7 - 2013-07-01 15:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
Digging a bit deeper into this guys´ killboard, it seems you crossed blades with an absolute pro who knows what he is doing. Lots of experience both with 1v1 and his ship and knowing that system better than the top of his mouth.
Also assume both his relevant skills completely maxed out and the best (combat) implants money can buy. Possibly an OGB as well.

In short, you were unlucky enough to fight someone who is on the very top of the Eve foodchain...


Edit: Hell, that man went on and killed a battlecruiser with his Incursus an hour later, awesome!

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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#8 - 2013-07-01 16:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
Heh...very nice taking on a spooky dude and your losses weren't in vain because they give us the info we need to help ya.

The sentry guns at the station should have shot him the first time he agressed you unless you shot him first and they hurt a lot. When you shoot at him he gets a LE (llimited engagement flag). At that point if he warps off outside sentry range and comes back you will receive no NPC help. In the future if this happens stay calm and try to just get them in scram/web range before anything else. The sentries will tear a solo frigate apart. If you can't and you're loosing bad...dock and repair. You will only be able to dock if you don't agress him, otherwise the weapons timer will prevent it.

If you intend to go back to this place for revenge first try to make some bookmarks of your own. You were alert enough to see where and how far his warp-off spot was so use that. Go in with a very cheap extreemly fast frigate and put a spot right near where you saw him. When he goes there be right on his tail. Make an insta-warp bookmark for yourself too just in case you feel like leaving and are getting stopped at the undock.

With the fits? They need a lot of work but your thinking is in the right place. Consider a repair bonus ship with blasters will use lots of capacitor. Neuts will annihilate that. No cap = no blasters, no repair and quickly no ship. Here's a couple fits to look at for inspiration....don't ever follow a fit 100% unless you like it and it fits your style. There are only a couple standard things you need for solo pvp (SINGLE TANK and this could mean signature tank not just mods, warp jammer to keep them from warping off, prop mod for speed) Feel free to drop a couple launchers/guns for some neuts in a situation like the one you were in.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65490-Corax-Anti-Frigate.html

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65073-Cormorant-Extra-lowslot-Activate-the-win-face.html
(substitue meta mods for tech II where you need to and adjust for CPU/PG if you're low SP and it doesn't fit)


Stay calm and cool. Getting pissed off is fine but don't let it get to your head making you slam un-fit ships against a wall...but hey I been there and understand. What you did is much better than not going back to at least try.

Fly 'um Like Ya Stole 'Um o7


Edit:
He did kill you for a reason. You were in his system and there's no way to know if you have a 50mil sister probe launcher on that heron unless you pop it....and you were in his system. Think of it like falling into a spider's web. Ya can't blame the spider for doing what a spider does.
Atkins Friendly
NightWatch Ind
#9 - 2013-07-01 16:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Atkins Friendly
Enochx Kaine wrote:

2--How did warp to 183km away from me? Basically in the middle of nowhere. How did he do that? Why would he do that? Is this a common strategy? If so, I need to learn it



One thing to note on this. A common PVP practice is to leave wrecks so they can be warped too later on. More than likely he bookmarked his current location - warped to a moon - warped back to his boommark from 100km away - then warped to the wreck.

You are able to warp to Sqaud mates and/or celestrials from 150km away. So if there is a wreck by you (like you said you were going too) he merely just warped to the wreck to attack you. :)

Things you could of done:

Fit a better tank - First time he attacked you - find out what he was using to shoot you with. Looks like he used Blasters so i would of built up a resistance towards Kenetic and thermal :). This would lower the amount of damage he does. Also for PVP i prefer to build a buffer shield tank. So put a couple of shield extenders on and maybe 1 thermal and 1 kenetic hardener. and a AB.

never dual tank - it's pointless.

now he was using a frigate.. so i would of just beat him at his own game. You know he has to get up close to deal damage but you have the advantage of a bigger tank AND more guns in a cruiser or destroyer so i would of fitted blasters myself :)

GJ on the attitude though by not raging but rather coming to the forums and asking questions. You will be a pvp pro soon :)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2013-07-01 17:22:46 UTC
Enochx Kaine wrote:


So here are my questions:

1--why didn't the police or Concord help me? Not even a freaking sentry gun or nothing.


Concord only helps in 0.5 and higher, and ONLY when they commit an illegal act of aggression. If he was an outlaw, criminal, or a Suspect, you could legally shoot him, without concord caring. Note, anytime you shoot someone, they gain the legal right to shoot you back. So, when you shoot him first, it means he could defend himself without concord/station gun interference.

Sentry guns fire anytime someone commmits a new illegal act in front of them. If you warp off, they quit firing at you (even if you then warp back).

Enochx Kaine wrote:

2--How did warp to 183km away from me? Basically in the middle of nowhere. How did he do that? Why would he do that? Is this a common strategy? If so, I need to learn it


Bookmarks. Open People & PLaces, and under the places tabe you can make bookmark of any spot in space you travel to. You can also right click and bookmark some "distant locations", too (cans, wrecks, etc). Something to note, those same objects can often be directly warped to, also!

Enochx Kaine wrote:

3--What could I have done differently? I tend to lean towards long range combat. My philosophy is to attack them at a distance and keep them from hitting me as opposed to just trading punch for punch right up close with each other. So what could I have done? My web Stasis was usless because it only works at 10km. I didn't have a scrambler on, but that only keeps them from using their warp and MWD right? He can still use afterburner and most people USE afterburners...right?


If you go with long range combat, you need to fit up modules for range control (MWD).
You also need modules to keep them on the field of battle (warp disrupter)

Against a scram/web/blaster incursus, you may want to use other modules too (Sensor dampener to prevent him from locking, webs to stop his range, etc).

An AB, Scram, 2x web in the mids, a full rack of rocket launchers in the highs, and a DCU and maybe BCU in the lows would have eaten that incursus alive. Just keep at range about 6-7 km's, and pound him outside of blaster range.
Enochx Kaine
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-07-01 20:31:24 UTC
Sweet. At least it looks like I ALMOST killed a pro my first time out. I KNEW I should have just eaten my losses with that Heron....but no one has ever attacked me before. I had to stand up for myself.

He was evil too...at first I made it into the dock before he could attack me and I unloaded all my cargo from the relic and data sites I had looted. THen I went back out and it looked like he wasn't going to attack. I waited and figured he scanned me and saw I was harmless. So I launched my probes because I was going to go probing in teh system. THen he killed me.

At least I wasn't the only victim last night. And it's good to know that I am on the right track as far as tactics and such. I have enough frigates in stock and enough money to at least keep going and make some MORE money.

AND I FORGOT ABOUT THOSE DAMN IMPLANTS. I lost all those didn't I. Damn things were expensive. BAH. I got one in some dock somewhere at least. Now I only need four more.

Real quick...since I am going to be flying frigs for a bit.....What is the difference between a Kestrel and a Condor? They are both missle boats right? SO what's the difference?

And do people even really use Destroyers? Because I have my cruiser skills built up a little bit....I WAS going to buy one in the next day or two but now I need to make a little money first. If I had had a cruiser with Heavy Assault missles....would I even had been able to hit that Frigate?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-07-01 20:35:20 UTC
Quote:
Real quick...since I am going to be flying frigs for a bit.....What is the difference between a Kestrel and a Condor? They are both missle boats right? SO what's the difference?


The kestrel has another missile hardpoint (4 launchers compared to 3 I believe) and is tankier. The Condor is much faster.

Quote:
And do people even really use Destroyers? Because I have my cruiser skills built up a little bit....I WAS going to buy one in the next day or two but now I need to make a little money first. If I had had a cruiser with Heavy Assault missles....would I even had been able to hit that Frigate?


People use destroyers - as you guessed, they're far better at actually hitting small stuff than cruisers. A cruiser needs to employ things like webs, neuts, TPs and drones if it wants to properly damage frigate hulls.
Enochx Kaine
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-07-01 20:36:12 UTC
He attacked me first all three times as well, so I shouldn't have lost any security status or none of that right? I should still be welcome in all high sec places........right?
Enochx Kaine
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-07-01 20:36:56 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Real quick...since I am going to be flying frigs for a bit.....What is the difference between a Kestrel and a Condor? They are both missle boats right? SO what's the difference?


The kestrel has another missile hardpoint (4 launchers compared to 3 I believe) and is tankier. The Condor is much faster.

Quote:
And do people even really use Destroyers? Because I have my cruiser skills built up a little bit....I WAS going to buy one in the next day or two but now I need to make a little money first. If I had had a cruiser with Heavy Assault missles....would I even had been able to hit that Frigate?


People use destroyers - as you guessed, they're far better at actually hitting small stuff than cruisers. A cruiser needs to employ things like webs, neuts, TPs and drones if it wants to properly damage frigate hulls.



whats a NEUT and a TP?
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-01 20:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dheeradj Nurgle
Enochx Kaine wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Real quick...since I am going to be flying frigs for a bit.....What is the difference between a Kestrel and a Condor? They are both missle boats right? SO what's the difference?


The kestrel has another missile hardpoint (4 launchers compared to 3 I believe) and is tankier. The Condor is much faster.

Quote:
And do people even really use Destroyers? Because I have my cruiser skills built up a little bit....I WAS going to buy one in the next day or two but now I need to make a little money first. If I had had a cruiser with Heavy Assault missles....would I even had been able to hit that Frigate?


People use destroyers - as you guessed, they're far better at actually hitting small stuff than cruisers. A cruiser needs to employ things like webs, neuts, TPs and drones if it wants to properly damage frigate hulls.



whats a NEUT and a TP?



A Neut is an Energy Neutralizer, which kills off their Capacitor. A variant on them are Energy Vampires, which drain the Capacitor to your ship.

A TP is an Target Painter, which increases the Signature Radius of a ship, making them easier to hit.

Edit; Being Wanted means players put a bounty on him, not that he has a low Security Status.
Enochx Kaine
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-07-01 20:51:35 UTC
Is there a place other than Battleclinic for loadout examples? Because I dont' see many of the things yall are talking about there. Maybe I am not looking correctly. O rmaybe I need to pay more attention to the loadouts on EveMon.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#17 - 2013-07-01 20:58:20 UTC
Quote:
Is there a place other than Battleclinic for loadout examples? Because I dont' see many of the things yall are talking about there. Maybe I am not looking correctly. O rmaybe I need to pay more attention to the loadouts on EveMon.


Target painters are pretty specialized and not going to be something you see on a lot of ships. Neuts are mostly used on cruiser+ sized ships that have utility hislots (utility being a slot that cannot be used for the ship's primary weapon system).

Quote:
He attacked me first all three times as well, so I shouldn't have lost any security status or none of that right? I should still be welcome in all high sec places........right?


If he attacked you in the last 15 minutes then you can engage him no matter what. Other circumstances you can engage him in are if he's a suspect (skull) or if he has a security status below -5 (red background).
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-07-01 21:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
Neut=energy neutralizer. It drains the enemy's capacitor. A rep fit incursus lives by its cap.
TP=target painter. Missiles do damage based on signature radius so blooming it out with a 2 tp's will allow you to hit a smaller target with large missiles

Edit: use eve fitting tool to work out your fits. You can import/export fits to and from the game as well. You can also export an eft fit to eve mon to create a skill plan
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-07-01 21:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dheeradj Nurgle
You might be interested in http://failheap-challenge.com/forumdisplay.php?15-Ship-Setup-Hangar

Start with the stickies.


A big problem with Battleclinic is that few people know what they are doing. Sure, you can create a high DPS/strong Tank ship by "EFT warrioring", but they might be useless in practice.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#20 - 2013-07-01 22:01:07 UTC
Enochx Kaine wrote:
Is there a place other than Battleclinic for loadout examples? Because I dont' see many of the things yall are talking about there. Maybe I am not looking correctly. O rmaybe I need to pay more attention to the loadouts on EveMon.


Look at people's losses on the killboards if they have a good record. The guy that killed you has a nice incursus fit you can use. Blink
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