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best level 4 mission running ship
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#21 - 2013-06-30 06:36:41 UTC
Mach is the best for sure. Cruise boats caught up a lot but still aren't as good post Odyssey. The tracking nerf didn't hurt it that bad.

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are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#22 - 2013-06-30 08:03:37 UTC
Another feature of the Machariel that I have come to really appreciate is its ability to align so fast, almost cruiser-like.
It might not seem much, but it sums up, especially if you are blitzing.

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CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#23 - 2013-06-30 14:04:39 UTC
Machariel is by far peoples choice, all pirate battleships are really good for what you want.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#24 - 2013-07-01 01:19:34 UTC
Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-07-01 02:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...

Art of Explosions
stoicfaux
#26 - 2013-07-01 04:20:55 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.

Yes, but... what's the DPS of the MWD Rattlesnake while the MWD is active? =/

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#27 - 2013-07-01 06:58:56 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Rattlesnake by a mile.

You can get 1241 dps and pick the damage type now.

Still has awsome tank and can run a MWD.

Sentries ruin smaller targets with ease.

Anyone still preaching other ships hasn't seen what the changes to cruise missiles on top of drone damage upgrades have done.


Are you running both with good skills? I am. Curious what your results in a Machariel vs RS for the same missions are.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#28 - 2013-07-01 07:05:45 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-07-01 07:58:30 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Yes, but... what's the DPS of the MWD Rattlesnake while the MWD is active? =/


Probably reduced to missiles plus light (maybe medium drones), which is not great but with 3 drone damage amp's it still some 550 dps with hammerheads II's.

Besides you only need the mwd to get to gates and pick up loot, most of the time all you need to do is use mjd once, and just clear the room with sentries.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-07-01 08:31:53 UTC
Ellon JTC wrote:
Hi
Assuming you have the right skills and isk what would be the best level 4 security mission running ship?
By best I mean fastest. I want to get the missions done as fast as possible.


It depends on the mission and who you are fighting against.

For instance: Recon, level 4 part 1
Blitz
The gates are not locked, so you can blitz this mission without a single kill.

The Machariel is a great ship, but it is nowhere near the best ship to run this mission. A fast cruiser or frigate will complete it much quicker. No one ships is the best at every mission. Some are best done with speed, some with DPS at range other DPS up close, etc. Cargo Delivery can be done very quickly with a small fast ship.... such as a shuttle.

The point is: a ship is a tool for getting the job done... match the tool to the job.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-01 13:10:51 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.


ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

Art of Explosions
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2013-07-01 13:34:47 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Well the flight time will result in some lost DPS unless you're absolutely perfect when it comes to counting the right amount of missiles.

So overall the Domi is currently by far the superior choice. Its a ******* mission monster Twisted

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-07-01 14:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Flight time isn't as bad as you'd expect with the speed they go today. Only really get to volley counting out near lock range.

Edit: and it's been a while since I mentioned it but the TFI craps all over both those boats: 1300+ DPS out to lock range with the weakest sentry (warden) and no heat or implants. DPS with curators/bouncers/gardes rises - only gardes can't reach lock range pretty comfortably. Damage application is extremely good too. P

Of course, missions affording the luxury of zero travel are rare and it gets a significant portion of its damage from the sentries - well - that part that edges it ahead. Where cruises go, just about every boat is the same, its the sentries/DDAs/DLA that push the TFI that bit further than anything else.


However, as I've said and to echo another posted - missions are a task - pick the right tool for the job. The Mach is an excellent hull, however so are a fair number of others now that on the right mission will beat it hands down. Of course, it's swings and roundabouts because the likes of angels extravaganza, only a fool would bet against a Mach.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#34 - 2013-07-01 14:53:47 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.


ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

It must be a reading comprehension thing, or possibly a failure to use available tools, so I will do the work and see if it helps. This is why I use a Mach.

My Mach with my skills and implants.
Auto-cannons and a set of 4 guards
Hail-1597 DPS -4km Optimal, 46km Falloff
EMP- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Fusion- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Phased Plasma- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff

Artillery and a set of 4 Guards (Or whatever is appropriate)
Quake-1174 DPS -19km Optimal, 113km Falloff
EMP-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Fusion-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Phased Plasma-1161 DPS -39km Optimal , 113km Falloff

Tracking speed script changes Arties to 35km and 92km, and Auto-cannons to 3.5km and 50km

Add to those numbers the added benefit that you’re not flying a potato, and yes anytime you need to hit something on the move the 'approach' button works wonders ,especially to get the transversal to show a string of 0.00001

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-01 15:08:17 UTC
To be fair, if I spent on a TFI what that mach costs, it'd outdamage at Mach at just about everything past about 30km. It's within a few DPS of your hail values at longer ranges, with selectable damage.

However my point stands - horses for courses (for example, that TFI cant move without losing a lot of DPS - its basically a giant sentry). These days, it's better to have a stable of ships, rather than rely on just one.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#36 - 2013-07-01 15:13:51 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
To be fair, if I spent on a TFI what that mach costs, it'd outdamage at Mach at just about everything past about 30km. It's within a few DPS of your hail values at longer ranges, with selectable damage.

However my point stands - horses for courses (for example, that TFI cant move without losing a lot of DPS - its basically a giant sentry). These days, it's better to have a stable of ships, rather than rely on just one.

Very true, I have several options in the hangar as well. Never much cared for missiles after training them I always felt I had wasted 3 months on something that was only 'better' in gurrista missions.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-07-01 15:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Goldiiee wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
mach is good on paper but especially after the TE nerf and buffs to other ships it's gotten behind things like the CNR and even the regular dominix...


ROFL. Seriously, on the floor laughing.


ROFL Seriously, tell me why I would use a mach now over the CNR or the domi?

It's got terribad range now and using barrage on anything except angels is a joke.
A domi does 850+ REAL dps to 90km+
A CNR does 900+ REAL dps to 90km+

Mach fights in falloff and at perfect skills and implants it has 8+93km range using barrage and 1001 DPS using the most expensive implants possible.

This means that when it fights at an equal 90km it does around 700 DPS with explosive ammunition ONLY whereas the other 2 can change freely between any damage type.

While you're flying around like a moron at 700m/s to get within reasonable range to the npcs I'm sitting at the warp in blapping everything

It must be a reading comprehension thing, or possibly a failure to use available tools, so I will do the work and see if it helps. This is why I use a Mach.

My Mach with my skills and implants.
Auto-cannons and a set of 4 guards
Hail-1597 DPS -4km Optimal, 46km Falloff
EMP- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Fusion- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff
Phased Plasma- 1456 DPS -4km Optimal, 62km Falloff

Artillery and a set of 4 Guards (Or whatever is appropriate)
Quake-1174 DPS -19km Optimal, 113km Falloff
EMP-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Fusion-1161 DPS -39km Optimal, 113km Falloff
Phased Plasma-1161 DPS -39km Optimal , 113km Falloff

Tracking speed script changes Arties to 35km and 92km, and Auto-cannons to 3.5km and 50km

Add to those numbers the added benefit that you’re not flying a potato, and yes anytime you need to hit something on the move the 'approach' button works wonders ,especially to get the transversal to show a string of 0.00001


yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation Roll

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

The closest a mach can get close to the projection and applied damage of a CNR and domi is by using a 3 slot tank and 1 fed navy omni and 4 bouncers and barrage.

and even then the domi still out damages the mach from 60-90 meaning mach has 30km to cover to even MATCH the domis projected dps and that's with barrage, any other ammo and the mach starts losing from 50km.

You keep using your mach though.

Art of Explosions
Ecks Khan
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-07-01 15:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ecks Khan
Mach is still the best to me, because it just plain does so much. It's the battleship the flys like a cruiser, tanks like a BS and hits like a Dread Cool. I've got an ArmorMach and a ShieldMach and use either arties or ACs (faction arties don't need reactor control so I use those even though i can use tech II).

The RNI and Fleet phoon and other ships are great and I really like the Domi now, it's kind fo a matter of Taste now and no real king. But i still like the Mach.

And the ShieldMach has an advantage no other boat I fly has. I put Incursion mach Rigs on it (tech II shield Rigs) and keep the fits for both incursions and lvl 4 missions handy, so when there are no incursions or it takes too long to get into a fleet I can pop on the lvl 4 fit, find the nearest agent because i can use lvl 4 agents in most Empires, and keep making isk while the res tof my Incursion community are cursing the names of ISN or DIN or whoever just popped the MOM early HeHe.

Sure, I could do that with an RNI, but missile ships don't get invited to fleets in most communities at NEAR the speed a mach does.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#39 - 2013-07-01 15:34:06 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation Roll

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice. Smile

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-07-01 15:45:29 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
yes cause using 24km optimal gardes is going to absolutely wondrous for your applied DPS in a real situation Roll

Please, try and get your numbers on EFT higher, it's extremely amusing.

That's why I stated ''Or whatever is appropriate' Add to that I rarely set drones out, but as you are discussing imaginary numbers, might as well throw all the numbers out there.

It should be noted that after three years of uninterrupted skill training and 73 mil SP, I have finished all the damage and drones skills to 5, and the Core and Targeting skills to elite, these numbers will not be available to anyone that is looking to get into the same ship this week. Unless they had it already, in witch case they wouldn't be asking in the forums for ship advice, they would be giving that advice. Smile


I'm not discussing imaginary numbers, my domi currently sits at 800 DPS at gallente BS 4 and using medium artillery still and it hits out to 86km.

I'm not at perfect skills yet for it but not too far either. The mach is just heavily overrated now, especially with the recent changes to the ships I have been talking about. It still is a great ship and I'd be stupid not to acknowledge that but I just cringe a little bit in every "what ship for level 4s" thread everyone and their mother just defaults to "machariel" and it's simply not true anymore.

Art of Explosions