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Time for EvE II

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-07-01 02:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
EvE is a great game. But its an old game. CCP have proven its a viable game. Screw dust, vampires and develop EvE II already. A lot of people will respond that its constantly updated but its core is 10 years old, its grid system is borked, its full of legacy code thats not loosely coupled, its restricted by old design concepts that relied on old hardware and software limitations that dont exist or have been largely mitigated by new hardware software and faster net speeds.

Give us EvE II. Ill give you my firstborn.

Oh yeah and please look at the infinity quest for earth system. Procedural universe generation and planetary flight.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ehcks Argentus
X LLC
#2 - 2013-07-01 02:23:56 UTC
Luc Chastot
#3 - 2013-07-01 03:50:00 UTC
This idea I had not seen before; it is still a terrible idea, however.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-01 03:54:40 UTC
If they make an EVE II and discontinue this version of eve I will be going down with my ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#5 - 2013-07-01 04:07:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
EvE is a great game. But its an old game. CCP have proven its a viable game. Screw dust, vampires and develop EvE II already. A lot of people will respond that its constantly updated but its core is 10 years old, its grid system is borked, its full of legacy code thats not loosely coupled, its restricted by old design concepts that relied on old hardware and software limitations that dont exist or have been largely mitigated by new hardware software and faster net speeds.

Give us EvE II. Ill give you my firstborn.

Oh yeah and please look at the infinity quest for earth system. Procedural universe generation and planetary flight.

For games it is sequels that kill them because:
1. they take Dev time
2. they are the reason of playerbase segmentation.
3. they are rarely better than original.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Adunh Slavy
#6 - 2013-07-01 04:10:36 UTC
They need to update this one and fix all the things you mention. That way we can still ***** and gripe as they do it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-01 05:37:18 UTC
This would be awesome.. but it would be easier said than done..
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#8 - 2013-07-01 05:52:00 UTC
The idea of EVE II is totally stupid..

However the idea of maybe dedicating some dev time to try and rebuild the core and the foundation of the game, to be able to rip out the guts and give the game the equivalent of a triple bypass might be valid.

As long as they considered some sort of script or batched based porting software it might not be such an impoosble task.
It would be a bit equivalent to when migrating huge projects using things like quest software to batch from the old systems.

I think its even possible ccp devs would consider this a valid challenge.. They tend to like big and novel ideas.

The equivalent would be if WoW wanted to fully optimize their game, but not loose the years of valuable invested player time. Many games from that era have aged a LOT, and coming up with some method of upgrading without it being a band aid like process is def interesting. Since mmo games with such long lifespan tend to grow strong cultural and social based roots, things that make it impossible to just do it via some sequal method.
Alkyria Decile
Delstar Corp
#9 - 2013-07-01 06:31:45 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The idea of EVE II is totally stupid..

However the idea of maybe dedicating some dev time to try and rebuild the core and the foundation of the game, to be able to rip out the guts and give the game the equivalent of a triple bypass might be valid.

As long as they considered some sort of script or batched based porting software it might not be such an impoosble task.
It would be a bit equivalent to when migrating huge projects using things like quest software to batch from the old systems.

I think its even possible ccp devs would consider this a valid challenge.. They tend to like big and novel ideas.

The equivalent would be if WoW wanted to fully optimize their game, but not loose the years of valuable invested player time. Many games from that era have aged a LOT, and coming up with some method of upgrading without it being a band aid like process is def interesting. Since mmo games with such long lifespan tend to grow strong cultural and social based roots, things that make it impossible to just do it via some sequal method.


They already have a team of devs doing this. However it all goes on behind the scenes and its a very slow process. If they put more effort into it then there would be much less new content and the game would probably stagnate too badly.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#10 - 2013-07-01 06:57:55 UTC
EVE II? OP lives in 2006? We're playing EVE III already, we don't need to go back in time!
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#11 - 2013-07-01 07:02:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
EvE is a great game. But its an old game. CCP have proven its a viable game. .

And that alone proves that they have no need of doing this. EVE is a viable game, you're right. Some of us actually like playing it.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Screw dust, vampires...

I think you'll find that it wouldn't be in CCP's best interests to create a game that would mostly compete with their own game. Dust & World Of Darkness target different player groups and so are designed to not compete overly with EVE and thus supposedly introduce new revenue streams to CCP.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
...and develop EvE II already. A lot of people will respond that its constantly updated but its core is 10 years old, its grid system is borked, its full of legacy code thats not loosely coupled, its restricted by old design concepts that relied on old hardware and software limitations that dont exist or have been largely mitigated by new hardware software and faster net speeds.

Unless they made EVE less harsh and more fluffy they wouldn't really do anything other than split their current subscribers between the two (taking current growth into account) as they would essentially be the same game or if they shut EVE1 when they opened EVE2 they would in all likelihood loose a large chunk of their playerbase. I for one and there are others, would quit playing as completely destroying everything I've done just so they can have a new version would annoy the hell out of me. I'm not starting all over again.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Give us EvE II. Ill give you my firstborn.

Oh yeah and please look at the infinity quest for earth system. Procedural universe generation and planetary flight.

CCP aren't the devil or some witch, you know. I don't think they'll want your firstborn Blink

Perhaps if they carefully rewrite the legacy code whilst simultaneously updating the game it might form the same function that you're asking for without losing playerbase or disturbing anyone's game too much. I mean, they've changed it so much over the last decade they would be within their rights to call the current iteration of EVE EVEII anyway.

So yeah, if you're after an updated version of the game rejoice, as it's already here and will continue to be updated and expanded as long as there are enough players to pay the salaries.
Xander Det89
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#12 - 2013-07-01 08:08:45 UTC
Almost as bad as your "Jesus Mode" troll thread.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#13 - 2013-07-01 08:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Tchulen wrote:
-snipped-


Again Mr Tchulen speaks with the voice of reason. I agree with the man and we have just moved to V3 Shaders along with utilising SotA military grade hardware before any other MMO (or has any MMO even got this access now!).

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-07-01 08:35:50 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
This idea I had not seen before; it is still a terrible idea, however.

I've seen it many times before and the idea hasn't become any less terrible over the years. If anything CCP has proven the idea increasingly more stupid and unnecessary by making continual improvements to the game, rewriting of old code and getting rid of existing bottlenecks of performance.

This entire proposal isn't a serious proposal to address any issues. It's a personal daydream, where every vague problem the person proposing it has about the game will magically disappear, if only CCP made the game again from scratch. The facts that it's totally unnecessary in a continually updated online game, financially stupid and won't actually change many designs choices doesn't seem to matter to them.

Absolutely terrible idea.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-07-01 08:36:40 UTC
Rewriting the whole game or even major portions of it, which is what you guys are suggesting would likely cost and take more time than creating an EvE II. Im a programmer myself but I have never worked on systems as large and complex as EvE. However the systems I have worked on with around 20k to 100k lines of code are a nightmare to rewrite / port. I think EvE would be a hell of a lot bigger than that making it pretty much impossible or at least not worth the effort.

As for it being a stupid idea, thats a stupid statement. As for it not being as good as the original also a stupid statement. If an EvE II had seamless systems, seamless space to planetary flight, an improved interface, improved graphics, improved load handling, improved combat etc etc it could not be a bad idea. A superior product based on an already successful game is a good idea. All games have a use by date. Or do you think EvE will be around still in 10 years.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-07-01 08:39:47 UTC
Can't say wether or not it will be around for another 10 years but trying to create an EVE II will not extend its life.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-07-01 08:44:45 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Can't say wether or not it will be around for another 10 years but trying to create an EVE II will not extend its life.

Lol. If creating an EvE II was viable in terms of it getting enough subscribers for another 10 years to cover the costs of development, maintenance and generate a profit greater than sticking with the original than it would be a good idea.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#18 - 2013-07-01 08:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
EVE is only as old as it's content and the emergent gameplay...it's subscription rates have risen steadily year on year and I do see it being around for the next 5-10 years if not further because it adapts.

Why birth a new beast when you can keep adding to a fantastic environment and continue to "unhook" the code to make it easier to develop? Oh and free expansions may I add (apart from the last few that have been poor IMHO).

I just don't get it and really can't get behind this idea. DUST514 (spit) was created from CCP to hook into EVE and I was against that as I just didn't feel it needed it and the fact that it's F2P. We don't need Devs working on a "New New Eden" we just need more things fixing and a bit more content along with behind the scenes work (see above point on code).

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-07-01 09:24:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Can't say wether or not it will be around for another 10 years but trying to create an EVE II will not extend its life.

Lol. If creating an EvE II was viable in terms of it getting enough subscribers for another 10 years to cover the costs of development, maintenance and generate a profit greater than sticking with the original than it would be a good idea.

It would depend on how they implemented it, if they're everyone train new characters they would lose much of there current subscription base, if they allowed characters to be transferred to EVE II there would not be much of a reason for a second game then would there.

I honestly don't foresee the MMO fad lasting another 10 years, considering the advancement of micro technology.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#20 - 2013-07-01 09:33:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rewriting the whole game or even major portions of it, which is what you guys are suggesting would likely cost and take more time than creating an EvE II.

Rewriting the whole game is what you're talking about when you say create EVE II.

What we're talking about is a slow and purposeful rewriting of specific parts of the game in order to bring them towards current technology standards. This is certainly not as expensive as rewriting the entire game into EVE II. This also doesn't affect the current playerbase anywhere near as much as telling them they have to start again in a different game.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Im a programmer myself but I have never worked on systems as large and complex as EvE. However the systems I have worked on with around 20k to 100k lines of code are a nightmare to rewrite / port. I think EvE would be a hell of a lot bigger than that making it pretty much impossible or at least not worth the effort.

It's possible you misunderstand what CCP are actually doing. As well as balancing the game they are in fact rewriting parts of the underlying code as they go along. It certainly isn't impossible and they are already making the effort.
There may well be portions that it is difficult to rewrite but as a programmer you must be aware that recoding an application isn't impossible if you have talented and skilled developers who understand the code.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
As for it being a stupid idea, thats a stupid statement. As for it not being as good as the original also a stupid statement. If an EvE II had seamless systems, seamless space to planetary flight, an improved interface, improved graphics, improved load handling, improved combat etc etc it could not be a bad idea. A superior product based on an already successful game is a good idea. All games have a use by date. Or do you think EvE will be around still in 10 years.

Why shouldn't CCP change EVE to have those things, over time? Why should they outlay millions of pounds/dollars/whatever and a whole load of risk to create a different game which either replaces their current game, risking losing a substantial chunk of their income or vies with their current game's market share when they can just keep their market share, their current game, not have that massive outlay or risk and still add the things and modify the things that they think would be good for the game? Simple answer, they won't. You're entirely talking pie in the sky. There are financial and risk reasons why they simply won't do what you're suggesting. Arguing for it is somewhat pointless.

I for one certainly hope EVE is still around in 10 years.
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