Ships & Modules

Yes, because obviously your kiting rail ship is orbiting them to maximize transversal and not burning away to leverage a range advantage.

Please be a high-effort troll.



At the OP: the issue with Medium Rails is that you're basically loading short-range ammo to try to do what other people can do using long-range ammo in their short-range guns: Scorch and Barrage are just going to outperform Railguns inside point range, and Null doesn't have the range for kiting on medium guns.

Honestly, I did not expect any better response from someone, who joins the largest alliance and then complains about making efforts. Finding a Goon with an understanding of game mechanics is like finding a homeless with a house.

Given a 1:1 situation can two ships approach from various angles and at different speeds. What matters in tracking is the speed difference between the two ships. You already have heard of the transversal problem. So you can come in a straight line from behind with almost no speed difference. You can come from left, right, top and bottom (or I could just say sideways) with your max. speed. Or from the front, again in a straight line with possibly twice your speed. You can say that for all situations, and without knowing any further factors, is the average speed difference between you and your target somewhere between 0 m/s and 2*max. velocity or (0+2*Vmax)/2 - or on average the max. velocity of your ship.

So when I use the max. velocity for calculating a good tracking speed do I not automatically and always approach with the worst transversal, but I am calculating your average chance that you have in making a good approach. The tracking speed I have given you is then what you need in order to have a 50:50-chance for a good approach.

For other situations where it is not a cruiser, but a smaller and perhaps faster ship or a larger, slower ship does the ratio between weapon signature and target signature create a counter balance. Again, without knowing any further factors do I assume a cruiser versus cruiser situation, because of how the ratio counters these differences in tracking and makes up for it.

Last but not least is the damage you deal a random generator value and the tracking formula determines your chance of making a hit. You could in theory have no tracking issues and still have the random generator roll a series of 0s. The effect of tracking on your final DPS is then no different from the effect your falloff has. Maybe you already know that at one length of your falloff you will still do 50% of your DPS. This is an average value. Tracking has the same effect towards your ship and below the optimal range.

The tracking speed I have given you then is the speed you need to have for a 50:50-chance, and on average, to deal 50% (a second average for a different thing) of your DPS. I know this is a lot of talk about averages, but you need to have some kind of measure to make sense of tracking and cannot just imply to be a pilot as good as perhaps CCP Fozzie or as bad as a Goon. You need to express it in numbers that everyone can reproduce. We then could express it as a triple integral or a differential equation, but you also want something that is easy to apply and requires little effort each time you want to figure out what your tracking will be like.

Therefore do you use a simple multiplication, or a division, to calculate tracking speed, range and a ship speed to know what your tracking situation will be like and how easy or hard it will be to handle a ship. Here are the approximations:

ship speed = tracking speed * tracking distance
tracking speed = ship speed / tracking distance
tracking distance = ship speed / tracking speed

The "tracking distance" is the distance at which your DPS drops below 50% and it is a statistical average.

My shield thoraxes say differently about their speed, welp, you should try them out.
Thing is medium blasters really lack of range but not dps, rails track like crap and have a crappy dps on top but this might as well be solved by simply tweaking ships bonus for those ships having them however those already bad without dmg bonus will still be bad and Dev in charge of balance should take a good look at this, faster the better because med class hybrid ships are clearly suffering from those guns lack of range or crap dps.

Hyrbrids in general are in a bad place for the kind of kiting we're talking about here (which is to say, staying close enough to your target to point them). Projectiles, Lasers, and even Missiles can all be made to hit out far enough to use close range weapons effectively through a combination of good long-ranged ammo and hulls with range bonuses. That means at the ~30 km envelope, you're looking at better damage, much better tracking, and easier fitting requirements, but even with Null a Blaster just can't reach far enough and none of the relevant hulls have a range bonus to help it out.

Instead, a Hybrid kiter has to use Medium Rails, but then you're just doing what a Stabber or Omen could do with 2x the tracking. Even making Medium Rails not-**** probably won't make them into the kind of weapon you want to rely on at relatively close ranges with the serious possibility of something getting even closer.

to OP:

1. Stop listening to everything whitehound is saying. That man is either trolling / has no idea what he is talking about.
2. You do not kite with an AB- unless you havea 100MN AB. Period. You are just not fast enough.
3. Medium rails suck. However something can be said for a rail vigilant with FN webs + links.
4. The only 'medium' kiting boats that use blasters are the following: Adrestia, Vigilant, Demios. However please be advised that other than the adrestia- both the vigilant and demios are horrible at it, and are now unplayable post TE nerf.
5. The best 'medium' kiting ship in the game currently is an RLM Caracal / SyFi. Arguments could be made for the Nomen. However past that, every other ship falls flat on its face.
6. Talos is amazing- even after the TE nerf. The Nmega shield fit is superior to the talos, provided you can throw a bit of ISK at it, and is a great ship
7. Any further questions send me a PM.
8. If you want, come out and fly with me. I will teach you the art of nano faggatory

At the end of the day you have to realize that post TE nerf, all fall off boats (excluding the Mach) got hit really hard in regards to kiting potential. The only way ships kie these days is with pulse lasers + scorch or RLM. If you are using large guns your still ok in a sense. But any gun size smaller than that, you are basically forced to go Pulse lasers / RLM. Its the sad reality of the meta these days.

Good luck, and happy hunting

Your kidding right? Med rails cannot track a cruiser. If the cruise pilot knows what he is doing, they can get under your guns. Infact because of the poor damage and amount of fitting space rails take- its a really sub par weapon system when compared to anything else.

How about a duel? 500mil bet your rail rax vs my caracal or my scythe fleet issue?

You will note that i didn't even mention the thorax in any of my posts. Because it is not a kiting ship. Period. The thorax could not kite before the TE nerf, and with the nerf can now not even dream of it.

I hesitate in responding to this post because it is just so incredibly dense. Of course you fit an MWD to a kiting boat. AB's are horrible save for a few specific instances in regards to kiting. AB's are nice on armor setups, but agian the OP was asking about kiting not armor brawling.

So have you decided on taking me up on our show match? Hell i will take you and a friend of yours on fit with your kiting rax. 2v1 500mil to the winner. What do you say?

You seem to talk quite a bit, but you are really throwing around a ton of blatently wrong advice, to someone looking for some honest answers. I would hate it if a new PvPer was lead astry with this dis-information.

I did in fact read the OPs post. In it he / she is asking if there is any way to kite with gal cruisers. I spoke in regards to this and have outlined, that it is basically impossible in my first post. I will stand by that statement, unless you are using ships that I made special mention of. Attaining his goal of Damage and projection using a gallente hull is impossible. If those damage / projection numbers are possible- the resulting ship fit used to achive these numbers will be easily out classed by another cruiser using Med pulse lasers + Scorch or RLM missiles.

That is answering his question.

I advocate not listening to any of your advice for the following reasons:
1. Your fits are horrible, and you advocate using AB's on a kite boat
2. Your fits are horrible, and you advocate using med rails on a thorax
3. Yes, I want to challenge you and a friend of yours to a 2v1 dual- because I think it will be the quickest 500mil I have ever made.

A caracal fit with HAM's is fail fit. Just letting you know.

I just want to confirm that you are in fact declining a 2X rail rax vs 1 caracal / scythe fleet / nomen duel? And here i thought that your fit was so strong! To OP- whitehound pussying out is making the point for me. Don't listen to him, and don't try to fly a rail thorax / kiter.

GG

PS. Would you fight me with no 500isk buy in? You know just straight up? However now that I look at your kill boards, you have absolutely no pvp experience with which to speak of. Leading me back to my original statement of:

Your a troll, or a complete dunce. Op ignore this fool.

Right but again, you are placing HAMs on a caracal. HAMs are a horrible weapon system- unless you have a ton of bonused TP's / webs helping you out. I point this out because- here again you are showing the eve forum community your naiveté when it comes to PvP and how to properly fit and fly a ship.

You also never answered my question- with no buy in, what do you say to a 2v1 duel? We still on for the gud fites?