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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#861 - 2011-11-08 07:13:04 UTC
Valkris Arkayne wrote:
CCP also needs to consider the vote of players NOT currently playing EVE, or never have... they have a greater vote than those who are already involved because they represent untapped potential. CCP should be looking at what everyone who isn't already paying and figure out what it would take to bring them in, then work towards capitalizing on those markets in a way that is friendly to their Intellectual Property and expand.

You and I are already customers; we've paid our dues and they 'have' us as fans. It's the people that aren't yet paying that CCP needs to entice into joining. Like it or not, 'space barbies' is very attractive to new players and solid character gameplay can really sell a game.

(Yes, I know I said 'solid' gameplay. Incarna needs RELEVANT gameplay before it will keep players hooked).

Sounds very similar to another game where they chased new customers at the expense of the existing ones ... Star Wars Galaxies.

CCP have already found out that you cannot assume the current players will stick around if you ignore the very reasons they joined up for in the first place.

For WiS to work it needs interesting long term things to do. Even with what was shown in Ambulation I do not believe that there will be hordes of new players attracted to EVE. The audience can be broadened, but one thing that wont attract new players is the NEX Store and in fact from looking at other forums turns people off from even trying EVE.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Lilliana Stelles
#862 - 2011-11-08 08:02:11 UTC
I don't even want to read back through all this spergbearding, but I certainly want to voice my opinion. There's alot of "Eve is about this or that", and the only ones remotely qualified to determine what Eve is about are the developers. It's only a sandbox if the developers fill it full of sand. If they want to fill it full of mud or glitter, that's their choice. You can pay for it or not.

Onto the point, I, as a user, would enjoy seeing Eve develop in a new direction. Games can get quite mundane and boring when there is a lack of social interaction. I'm personally not interested in trash-talking people who pew pew with me, and I feel that interacting solely with members of my corporation is somewhat antisocial.

WiS is a wonderful opportunity for players to actually interact with each other and meet each other in a civil, respectable manner. Personally, I'd love the chance to have my avatar sit down at the bar with a long rival and actually discuss what's gone on without being hit by a 283490728isk charge for chatting with them, or getting **** from whatever alliance I'm in for breaking silence in local. This is a social game, dammit, let there be player interaction outside of just public channels.

Pew pew is sortof silly when you're fighting nameless avatars who do nothing but spam trashtalk at you or maintain radio silence... but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved.

Please, CCP, humanize the game. Don't push WiS back any further. It should have been here from the beginning.

Not a forum alt. 

Taiwanistan
#863 - 2011-11-08 08:21:18 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I don't even want to read back through all this spergbearding, but I certainly want to voice my opinion. There's alot of "Eve is about this or that", and the only ones remotely qualified to determine what Eve is about are the developers. It's only a sandbox if the developers fill it full of sand. If they want to fill it full of mud or glitter, that's their choice. You can pay for it or not.

Onto the point, I, as a user, would enjoy seeing Eve develop in a new direction. Games can get quite mundane and boring when there is a lack of social interaction. I'm personally not interested in trash-talking people who pew pew with me, and I feel that interacting solely with members of my corporation is somewhat antisocial.

WiS is a wonderful opportunity for players to actually interact with each other and meet each other in a civil, respectable manner. Personally, I'd love the chance to have my avatar sit down at the bar with a long rival and actually discuss what's gone on without being hit by a 283490728isk charge for chatting with them, or getting **** from whatever alliance I'm in for breaking silence in local. This is a social game, dammit, let there be player interaction outside of just public channels.

Pew pew is sortof silly when you're fighting nameless avatars who do nothing but spam trashtalk at you or maintain radio silence... but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved.

Please, CCP, humanize the game. Don't push WiS back any further. It should have been here from the beginning.


damn you are dumb
formal complaint to your alliance diplos sent

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Lilliana Stelles
#864 - 2011-11-08 08:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilliana Stelles
Taiwanistan wrote:
damn you are dumb
formal complaint to your alliance diplos sent


Good job. Actually learning to talk to other players. At least we're making progress. You can complain to whoever you want, alliances are just that: alliances of players who enjoy working together and share common ideals. Not some totalitarian regime dedicated to controlling or censoring its players moves.

If you're in an alliance that actually gives a **** what you say on the forums (assuming you aren't jeopardizing them or revealing strategic tactical information) , then you're in the wrong alliance. I don't allow my actions to be controlled by some sperg across the internet who doesn't get out. Maybe you do... but that makes it all the more ironic that you're calling me dumb.

If you seriously think complaining about what I'm saying (when I'm not breaking any rules, game nor alliance), is going to have some sort of impact, then you seriously overestimate yourself.

I want WiS. I support it. And no alliance can tell me not to.

Not a forum alt. 

Jita Alt666
#865 - 2011-11-08 08:32:09 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
damn you are dumb
formal complaint to your alliance diplos sent


Good job. Actually learning to talk to other players. At least we're making progress. You can complain to whoever you want, alliances are just that: alliances of players who enjoy working together and share common ideals. Not some totalitarian regime dedicated to controlling or censoring its players moves.

If you're in an alliance that actually gives a **** what you say on the forums (assuming you aren't jeopardizing them or revealing strategic tactical information) , then you're in the wrong alliance. I don't allow my actions to be controlled by some sperg across the internet who doesn't get out. Maybe you do... but that makes it all the more ironic that you're calling me dumb.

If you seriously think complaining about what I'm saying (when I'm not breaking any rules, game nor alliance), is going to have some sort of impact, then you seriously overestimate yourself.

I want WiS. I support it. And no alliance can tell me not to.


Nerds need social interaction to Lilliana. My alliance is the right alliance - it always will be.
Taiwanistan
#866 - 2011-11-08 09:38:46 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
damn you are dumb
formal complaint to your alliance diplos sent


Good job. Actually learning to talk to other players. At least we're making progress. You can complain to whoever you want, alliances are just that: alliances of players who enjoy working together and share common ideals. Not some totalitarian regime dedicated to controlling or censoring its players moves.

If you're in an alliance that actually gives a **** what you say on the forums (assuming you aren't jeopardizing them or revealing strategic tactical information) , then you're in the wrong alliance. I don't allow my actions to be controlled by some sperg across the internet who doesn't get out. Maybe you do... but that makes it all the more ironic that you're calling me dumb.

If you seriously think complaining about what I'm saying (when I'm not breaking any rules, game nor alliance), is going to have some sort of impact, then you seriously overestimate yourself.

I want WiS. I support it. And no alliance can tell me not to.


and again you are stupid

everything you said in your original post, has zero meaningful gameplay, you can already do all that without wis,
you may be sitting in the same room with avatar but you are still typing,
you want to avoid paying 283490728isk charge for chatting, what does that have to do with wis? it may be that you are known to be stupid and people block you
nameless? dude we all have a name it is sort of required when creating a character, you mean faceless? yup we got faces too in the portrait

"but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved. "
i am so stupid i just can't see what this bit and your whole post has to do with wis.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#867 - 2011-11-08 09:40:49 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Yeah if your argument is reliant on the number of forum "Likes" you receive it's probably time to throw in the towel.


I have 680 likes so I must be right.


Having your own alts go back and 'Like' all of your posts doesn't count.


So, how many of your alts have "like"d this thread? How many of the "like"s that have gone for this thread were original accounts?

THATS why likes dont mean ****.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#868 - 2011-11-08 11:14:48 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
and again you are stupid

everything you said in your original post, has zero meaningful gameplay, you can already do all that without wis,
you may be sitting in the same room with avatar but you are still typing,
you want to avoid paying 283490728isk charge for chatting, what does that have to do with wis? it may be that you are known to be stupid and people block you
nameless? dude we all have a name it is sort of required when creating a character, you mean faceless? yup we got faces too in the portrait

"but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved. "
i am so stupid i just can't see what this bit and your whole post has to do with wis.


"STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!"

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#869 - 2011-11-08 14:02:02 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:

then you seriously overestimate yourself.


As you overestimate relevance of WiS.

You talk about wanting to socialize with people in EVE, perhaps you should start saving for Fanfest? There you will meet actual people that plays EVE or is that prospect too terrifying?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#870 - 2011-11-08 14:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Valkris Arkayne wrote:
You and I are already customers; we've paid our dues and they 'have' us as fans.

Actually they don't and they found this out over the summer.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#871 - 2011-11-08 15:55:03 UTC
Disclamer: I've only read the first post because... 43 pages Shocked so that's what I'm responding to.

CCP's quote is correct, more people want spaceships and FIS, and I think it's appropriate for them to push ahead in this. I can't think of an appropriate analogy, but for a business to ignore the kind of outcry the players gave would be foolish. Now, I do believe some people want WIS's as well, I know I would love it under certain conditions, most of those conditions being that it needs content. Right now they don't seem to really know what they are doing with it. There's going to be some kind of station you can walk around in, with some shops, and some games.... Really doesn't add much for most people. Even the people that come from other games just to get an avatar to dress up will grow bored shortly, there's only so many cloths you can buy, the attraction of Eve is it's dynamic content.

Personally I say open up station PvP! Same as you have in empire/low/null. If you step outside your captains quarters you can gank someone, but CONCORD atrium turrets are going to gank you back and you'll wake up back in your CQ. This is just coming off the top of my head, but I think capturing stations could easily be worked into this. Instead of hours of structure grinding you have to dock, get out, and physically take over certain points in the station. Then again, I'm an FPS fan, so some people might not like this, but it would go right along with CCP's total sci-fi goal.

At the end of the day though most of the current player base likes spaceships, that's why we are here, and while they may be interested in WIS and there may be outside players interested in it, it's not sound of them to completely ignore outcrys of current paying subscribers to address those.

Again, I love the IDEA of what walking in stations COULD be, but I'm not sure CCP's ideas line up with mine, or with Eve being a cold dark place. I would like to see them revisit this in the future, but I think they made a smart move dropping it for now.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#872 - 2011-11-08 16:28:50 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Yeah if your argument is reliant on the number of forum "Likes" you receive it's probably time to throw in the towel.


I have 680 likes so I must be right.


Having your own alts go back and 'Like' all of your posts doesn't count.

Is irony always lost on you?

No, but your trolling is definitely lost on me.


Jita Alt666 wrote:
Well that explains your likes away then.

Hahaha, you wished but it certainly explains all the 'Likes' that you have.

Alpheias wrote:
Of course, I am going to ask those that are for WiS when I am not and you are absolutely right, I don't see much point in them because the suggestions frankly scream "by roleplayers for roleplayers" and they do sound like wet dreams... like my wet dream of dropping bombs in empire.

So if I go by your logic now, if I had a 2003 character, I would have a little more weight behind it and since Alpheias is from 2009, my account possibly cannot? BRB then - going to buy a 2003 character. Great logic there by the way.Roll

Oh, for the record, nor do I hide behind a alt.


I already answered your question and posted a few examples of possible WiS game content that had nothing to do with 'Role Playing'. Unfortunately you decided not to view it and just continued posting your rant. It seems you don't really want to see any examples and you're basically just using that as an excuse while trying to derail this thread.

If buying a 2003 character is the only way you can prove you've been playing this game for that long, have at it.

This game has radically changed since it was first introduced and it'll continue to change. In 2003, it was just a few spaceships and strictly PvP content. Then PvE content was added which I'm sure the hardcore PvP crowd was deadset against it. For the longest time it was PvP only verses PvE. Now it's changed into FiS only verses anything else.
Tristan North
The Scope
#873 - 2011-11-08 16:42:59 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
Disclamer: I've only read the first post because... 43 pages Shocked so that's what I'm responding to.

CCP's quote is correct, more people want spaceships and FIS, and I think it's appropriate for them to push ahead in this. I can't think of an appropriate analogy, but for a business to ignore the kind of outcry the players gave would be foolish. Now, I do believe some people want WIS's as well, I know I would love it under certain conditions, most of those conditions being that it needs content. Right now they don't seem to really know what they are doing with it. There's going to be some kind of station you can walk around in, with some shops, and some games.... Really doesn't add much for most people. Even the people that come from other games just to get an avatar to dress up will grow bored shortly, there's only so many cloths you can buy, the attraction of Eve is it's dynamic content.

Personally I say open up station PvP! Same as you have in empire/low/null. If you step outside your captains quarters you can gank someone, but CONCORD atrium turrets are going to gank you back and you'll wake up back in your CQ. This is just coming off the top of my head, but I think capturing stations could easily be worked into this. Instead of hours of structure grinding you have to dock, get out, and physically take over certain points in the station. Then again, I'm an FPS fan, so some people might not like this, but it would go right along with CCP's total sci-fi goal.

At the end of the day though most of the current player base likes spaceships, that's why we are here, and while they may be interested in WIS and there may be outside players interested in it, it's not sound of them to completely ignore outcrys of current paying subscribers to address those.

Again, I love the IDEA of what walking in stations COULD be, but I'm not sure CCP's ideas line up with mine, or with Eve being a cold dark place. I would like to see them revisit this in the future, but I think they made a smart move dropping it for now.

If you read at least Part of the thread, you'll see that most of the players (In this thread) want simply both FiS and WiS.
It's about WiS not being abandoned, nothing more.
Tristan North
The Scope
#874 - 2011-11-08 16:45:21 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:

then you seriously overestimate yourself.


As you overestimate relevance of WiS.


For you.
Lilliana Stelles
#875 - 2011-11-08 17:05:33 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:

and again you are stupid

everything you said in your original post, has zero meaningful gameplay, you can already do all that without wis,
you may be sitting in the same room with avatar but you are still typing,
you want to avoid paying 283490728isk charge for chatting, what does that have to do with wis? it may be that you are known to be stupid and people block you
nameless? dude we all have a name it is sort of required when creating a character, you mean faceless? yup we got faces too in the portrait

"but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved. "
i am so stupid i just can't see what this bit and your whole post has to do with wis.


It's about immersion. Think about what you're saying, it's equivalent to "We already have forums, so why do we have in game chat?" The point I'm trying to express is the need for more forms of in game socialization and communication between parties. You do make a valid point though. It isn't necessary for gameplay by any means. But it increases a feeling of community and attachment to the game and other players.

I hate to even make this comparison because it was a horrible, boring game, but do you realize why WoW was so popular? I'll tell you it wasn't gameplay. Sure, they have casual gameplay that draws a large audience, but that casual gameplay also sucked. Eve's gameplay is much more intense, much more involved, and much more fun, at least in my opinion. The reason WoW had such a large audience is because of the social system that's in place. The gameplay was mostly in dungeons, but players were required to engage in interaction with random strangers in order to accomplish said goals. The ability to walk up to someone and randomly start a conversation that
1. Doesn't have an associated mail charge
2. Can be joined in by any passing player who shows interest
goes a long way. There's no proximity-based chat in Eve, whatsoever. It's either 1-on-1 chat, form a chatroom, or broadcast idiotically to all of local. Seeing more convenient ways of socialization will only be beneficial.

Necessary or not, it conveys benefits to everyone.

Here's another point: (Unless you're cloaked up in space), everyone, at some point, inevitably ends up ship spinning or facespinning when they're docked up and outnumbered, waiting on a group for a complex, waiting on a cyno, waiting on an industry job... Actually, Eve is alot of waiting no matter how you look at it. At the very least, the developers can give players something to do while they're waiting around in stations.

Why do you think Eve Poker, Somer.Blink, Eve Radio chat, etc, are all so popular? It gives players something engaging to do while on Eve. The thing is, the game could be directly benefiting from that just as much as third-party sites do.

And to whoever suggested Eve Fest to me, I've seriously been considering it. But should players really have to pay ~$800+ to talk to each other?

Not a forum alt. 

mkint
#876 - 2011-11-08 17:21:27 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I don't even want to read back through all this spergbearding, but I certainly want to voice my opinion. There's alot of "Eve is about this or that", and the only ones remotely qualified to determine what Eve is about are the developers. It's only a sandbox if the developers fill it full of sand. If they want to fill it full of mud or glitter, that's their choice. You can pay for it or not.

Onto the point, I, as a user, would enjoy seeing Eve develop in a new direction. Games can get quite mundane and boring when there is a lack of social interaction. I'm personally not interested in trash-talking people who pew pew with me, and I feel that interacting solely with members of my corporation is somewhat antisocial.

WiS is a wonderful opportunity for players to actually interact with each other and meet each other in a civil, respectable manner. Personally, I'd love the chance to have my avatar sit down at the bar with a long rival and actually discuss what's gone on without being hit by a 283490728isk charge for chatting with them, or getting **** from whatever alliance I'm in for breaking silence in local. This is a social game, dammit, let there be player interaction outside of just public channels.

Pew pew is sortof silly when you're fighting nameless avatars who do nothing but spam trashtalk at you or maintain radio silence... but when you're fighting people you know, people who you respect, gentlemen and scholars, then there's actually some sense of honor and respect for your opponents, and an understanding of the gravity of what everyone is engaging in, which brings the game to an entirely new and realistic level for everyone involved.

Please, CCP, humanize the game. Don't push WiS back any further. It should have been here from the beginning.


Hi, welcome to EVE. It's a good idea to start your game by doing the tutorials and talking to the career agents. Consider trying the Sisters of Eve epic mission arc beginning in Arnon. You'll find you can learn a lot about EVE by joining a corporation that can help you achieve your goals. I give you this short introduction because WTF game have you been playing?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Steveir
Hagukure
#877 - 2011-11-08 17:26:19 UTC
Having come so far, it seems nuts for CCP to abandon it. And there are lot of player who don't play Eve due to lack of Avitar play.
For God Sake CCP finish it properly, and if you need a gaming rig to play it, rather than a ancient laptop, so be it.

Make space "real", we want shooting avitars in bars - like yesterday. And poles, and /dance poledance animation - or we're rage quitting - again!!!
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#878 - 2011-11-08 17:41:13 UTC
CCP can reallocate resources to FiS or WiS.

Player discontent soared after release of Incarcass and The Store from Hell. Incarcass was Fail; Store was Fail; created tipping point for FiS-related discontent to boil over.

Forums full of reactions, feedback, and commentaries triggered by reallocation of resources to FiS. Player reaction suggests that CCP's decision is the correct one.

Defer WiS.
For the moment, correct method for leaving CQ is thru the hangar.
Winter is Coming.
Lilliana Stelles
#879 - 2011-11-08 17:57:05 UTC
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
CCP can reallocate resources to FiS or WiS.

Player discontent soared after release of Incarcass and The Store from Hell. Incarcass was Fail; Store was Fail; created tipping point for FiS-related discontent to boil over.

Forums full of reactions, feedback, and commentaries triggered by reallocation of resources to FiS. Player reaction suggests that CCP's decision is the correct one.

Defer WiS.
For the moment, correct method for leaving CQ is thru the hangar.
Winter is Coming.


I don't honestly remember that many complaints with the release of CQ in and of itself. There were a few, but it wasn't the majority. iirc:

There were alot of complaints of it not being optional.
There were alot of complaints that it wasn't optimized.
There were more than a few complaints about the NEX.
And there are quite a few complaints about the door.

All of these are valid points. But they're solved with more development of Incarna, not less. The return of ship spinning was a station feature development, after all, not a FiS development. Optimization will only come with further development. The NEX promised to release cheaper items in the future... which can only occur with further development. And the door is only going to open with further development.

FiS is important. I don't see why CCP is doing this whole "Focus" thing at all. Changing team members around just makes everyone confused. As a programmer myself, I'd hate to change software projects; I'd just be completely lost and probably mess something up. That would suck for everyone. They just need to actually finish things one thing at a time.

The biggest problem I see here is CCP's inability to actually finish things and keep promises. The FiS changes are nice, and they certainly didn't have enough people working on it. But drastically downsizing the WoD/WiS/Incarna/Nex teams isn't the solution.

Not a forum alt. 

Tristan North
The Scope
#880 - 2011-11-08 19:10:20 UTC
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
CCP can reallocate resources to FiS or WiS.

Player discontent soared after release of Incarcass and The Store from Hell. Incarcass was Fail; Store was Fail; created tipping point for FiS-related discontent to boil over.

Forums full of reactions, feedback, and commentaries triggered by reallocation of resources to FiS. Player reaction suggests that CCP's decision is the correct one.

Defer WiS.
For the moment, correct method for leaving CQ is thru the hangar.
Winter is Coming.

It was a reallocation of resources to EvE, they weren't workin on WiS, but on WoD, and most of the stuff in the winter expansion were already in development.