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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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SMAs not dropping ships, large objects no longer dropping as loot

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James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#81 - 2013-06-28 04:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: James Arget
I'd like to thank you all for the understanding and patience you've demonstrated on this important but complicated issue.

Hint hint.

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org
Craggus
Doomheim
#82 - 2013-06-28 05:57:58 UTC
Tldr: CCP hates wormholes and we should probably just love back to k-space. Would that make your jobs a little easier?
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#83 - 2013-06-28 07:52:30 UTC
Finally this is on the radar. GJ WH CSMers.

Confirming this is an important conflict driver in W-space. We have no Ice (intended as 'oil in space', no?) and e-honour/forcing fights remains the only reason to force your poor corpies into a structure bash in Anoikis.

We scoped a mark, left an alt in their hole for weeks gathering intel and gathered allies to ensure we had the numbers to take the POS and the shinies inside.

...Then we learned of the SMA feature... "Let'scallthewholethingoff".
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#84 - 2013-06-28 10:02:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Firstly: The change that caused this was an exploit prevention change, which we generally never go into details about in patch notes.


Since the exploit seems to be fixed for now, would you mind going into a little bit more detail?

I'm having a hard time coming up with an exploit that could abuse the fact that very specific object movement operations (salvage/destruction of SMA) are allowed to ignore container max volume.
Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-06-28 11:04:59 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Firstly: The change that caused this was an exploit prevention change, which we generally never go into details about in patch notes.


Since the exploit seems to be fixed for now, would you mind going into a little bit more detail?

I'm having a hard time coming up with an exploit that could abuse the fact that very specific object movement operations (salvage/destruction of SMA) are allowed to ignore container max volume.


my guess is a mass explosion of ships from a popped SMA or something

to many ships spawning at once = BOOM goes the client/node?


makes me want to fill an SMA with just frigates and launch them all at the same time....
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-06-28 11:12:45 UTC
This is super important issue for wormhole space people especially for those who PVP. I am glad CCP Fozzie is responding to it.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#87 - 2013-06-28 16:16:11 UTC
Ilaister wrote:
Finally this is on the radar. GJ WH CSMers.

Confirming this is an important conflict driver in W-space. We have no Ice (intended as 'oil in space', no?) and e-honour/forcing fights remains the only reason to force your poor corpies into a structure bash in Anoikis.

We scoped a mark, left an alt in their hole for weeks gathering intel and gathered allies to ensure we had the numbers to take the POS and the shinies inside.

...Then we learned of the SMA feature... "Let'scallthewholethingoff".



To be fair, when this issue was first posted (I think in a different thread), I brought it up with CCP. I was told that it was exploit related, and that they were aware it wasn't a good long term fix. I expected it to be fixed in Odyssey at the latest though, not to continue to fester for this long.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Istyn
Freight Club
#88 - 2013-06-28 16:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Istyn
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Firstly: The change that caused this was an exploit prevention change, which we generally never go into details about in patch notes.


Since the exploit seems to be fixed for now, would you mind going into a little bit more detail?

I'm having a hard time coming up with an exploit that could abuse the fact that very specific object movement operations (salvage/destruction of SMA) are allowed to ignore container max volume.


I am guessing Suddenly Ninjas' old wreck-baiting with an unsalvagable wreck trick was deemed an exploit. Not sure if that's
actually the case, of course, just the only thing I can think of.

Timeline about fits, and when they were stealth nerfed plastic wraps were destroyed upon salvaging. No idea why that would affect SMAs now I think of it, but that's my best guess. Ugh
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#89 - 2013-06-28 17:33:04 UTC
All tears/hate aside.

This "unintended Enhancement" has effectively removed a pvp content driver from the game.

I loved Odyssey because it brought more content to an existing system. It created a desire to participate in that content for both new and old players.

A POS bash is horrible content, but necessary for multiple reasons. As a player I can pick and choose the content that I participate in, based on my action and reward paradigm. This the magic of EVE as a game.

Risk/time and effort should have a quantifiable gain attached to it. This issue, has reduced that gain and not left us with any new rewards. This will have the effect of removing content.

If CCP's goal is to limit my content choices based on inaction or simply bad 'risk assessment' coding changes, it gives me fear for the future.

This needs to be changed back and fixed in a different way. Simply letting it stay as is, because of lack of focus on the magic that is EVE is not a good business choice.

Odyssey was a step forward, but this not being fixed ASAP is a huge step back.




Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-06-28 18:01:31 UTC
krickettt wrote:
Why not have wrecks for SMAs instead of cans?



This. You already have wreckage models for most PoS modules. I know because when I ran L4's like the carebear I was (who am I kidding, still am) they were one of the more frequent large collidables used in mission deadspace rooms.


You guys did so much good for PoS users and owners in Odyssey I honestly just assumed this problem was fixed. Please don't start back-sliding now.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#91 - 2013-06-28 18:03:24 UTC
Two step wrote:


To be fair, when this issue was first posted (I think in a different thread), I brought it up with CCP. I was told that it was exploit related, and that they were aware it wasn't a good long term fix. I expected it to be fixed in Odyssey at the latest though, not to continue to fester for this long.


In software development we have a saying - "There's nothing as permanent as a temporary fix."
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-06-28 19:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
James Arget wrote:
I'd like to thank you all for the understanding and patience you've demonstrated on this important but complicated issue.

Hint hint.


Don't know about the rest of the folks in here, but I'm not that subtle, so hints don't work, nor am I in anyway understanding or patient.

A known game breaking mechanic, which stifles conflict in 2000 w-space systems should be top priority for a fix, it should not still be rumbling on six or seven months after it was brought to the attention of the devs, *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

When we initially petitioned this we were told amongst other gems, like "working as intended", that CCP had limited resources and they basically had other better things to do with them. The only inference I can draw from that is "f**k w-space", *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Kage Roo
#93 - 2013-06-28 20:08:27 UTC
In the Reddit thread it was mentioned that it has been like this since februari 2nd...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1h1ft1/not_many_people_know_about_this_so_i_want_to/

Istyn
Freight Club
#94 - 2013-06-28 20:24:42 UTC
Kage Roo wrote:
In the Reddit thread it was mentioned that it has been like this since februari 2nd...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1h1ft1/not_many_people_know_about_this_so_i_want_to/



It's been at least affecting wrecks with 27,500+ m3 items since December 2012/January this year. Plastic wraps started having strange behaviour in wrecks around the time Suddenly Ninjas last went on a heavy wreck baiting binge and were stealth nerfed, maybe mid 2012?
Cab Tastic
Slartibartfast Coastlines Inc.
#95 - 2013-06-28 20:53:02 UTC
What a peculiar thing. This is the sort of thing you would expect to be fixed in a matter of days as it almost a game breaker for pos bashing in wh's.

Come on CCP pull your finger out! I am sure you could fix this quickly if the will was there to do it.

and it should be.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#96 - 2013-06-28 22:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those that quoted them.
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Kage Roo
#97 - 2013-06-29 00:29:01 UTC
Istyn wrote:
Kage Roo wrote:
In the Reddit thread it was mentioned that it has been like this since februari 2nd...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1h1ft1/not_many_people_know_about_this_so_i_want_to/



It's been at least affecting wrecks with 27,500+ m3 items since December 2012/January this year. Plastic wraps started having strange behaviour in wrecks around the time Suddenly Ninjas last went on a heavy wreck baiting binge and were stealth nerfed, maybe mid 2012?

damn.... i though since februari was a long time...

starting to feel this is geting more and more unacceptable.
Rena Senn
Halal Gunnery
#98 - 2013-06-29 02:12:09 UTC
James Arget wrote:
I'd like to thank you all for the understanding and patience you've demonstrated on this important but complicated issue.

Hint hint.

A problemt that goes unannounced and unfixed for 8 months doesn't tend to engender much of either. CCP should know by now how much the players hate information blackouts, and how much worse it can make the company look because we're only left with one side of the story. The E-Uni donation fiasco was a case in point. Even though CCP was in the right, by rigidly holding to their non disclosure policy until the whole thing exploded, they left an issue that could have easily been nipped in the bud fester into a pitchfork mob.

If CCP had been upfront about the issue and the difficulty of fixing it, many of us would have been willing to show patience and understanding. Instead they gave the impression, true or not, that they were trying to sweep it under the rug because they didn't care. Now the unreasonably impatient types are still whining anyway, and the rest of us are also angry. PR fail.
AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#99 - 2013-06-29 03:24:55 UTC
An issue like this is worth putting effort into for an expansion. Not a terrible jump animation or a new scanner.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org
Nycodemis
National Institute of Mental Health
#100 - 2013-06-29 05:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycodemis
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
An issue like this is worth putting effort into for an expansion. Not a terrible jump animation or a new scanner.


I agree that this is a severe issue and should have been fixed well before now... not just getting lip service, but the two things you mentioned deserved the work involved.

The jump animation is just that... animation, art assets, etc. The faster node transitions these animations accompany are certainly welcome.

The new scanner has had a marked affect on several aspects of the game from mining and exploration to PvP. As a member of SSC I'd assume that you would appreciate the ease of dropping on w-space miners not to mention the occasional moron clearing ladars in a carrier. Twisted
Also, the new scanner and hacking/analyzing mechanics also improve the prospects that they can be used for additional types of exploration in the future.

CCP... thanks for finally publicly acknowledging that you're aware of this, but the delay is borderline insulting, particularly to the w-space community. Better to start talking about WIS again than take away our pew. Shocked We miss our unicorns!