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Time dilation, seems very strange

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Author
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-11-08 03:20:39 UTC
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)

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Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-08 05:06:51 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)


CCP, At this speed it would be a neat feature to add bullet time effects. Imagine the psychological effect of seeing the shells from hundreds of artybaddons and maelstroms converging on your ship mere pixels at a time.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-11-08 05:51:40 UTC
From a pure player standpoint, this will be amazing to have for pvp. As was said by others, it shouldn't really have an effect on highsec where most lag is player's computer based. This is only server side lag. I assume what it does is slows down the cycle timer for the programs running. Ie if you remember old games before it ran off a clock speed and solely off cpu cycles with instant event resolutions?

Had with a few people a very good discussion on how it will affect, and most in unpredictable low/nullsec pvp. The biggest effect won't be in combat, but outside. A large fleet performing combat ops will take longer for a resolutionof combat to complete, allowing reinforcements to arrive. This is going to to be huge for defenders. Defence of systems in sov is going to be alot different.

In combat itself, uneven number fights should become more commonplace. An outnumbered FC will have better time to react, and for the fleet to get into position, jump through etc. More time to make calls, broadcast, people to start locking, etc. Reaction time period will be greater. So logistics will be more effective, for better or worse?

Just the main issues we thought of, lots more little ones. But will reiterate. Highsec lag is more often on the player side as the cpu tries to load stuff. Dialation does not fix it. Highsec traffic is predictable and as jita shows, now fairly under control. This stops cycle lag. Modules not turning on, locking, gate jumping etc. The stuff that really peevs most people in pvp.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-11-08 06:46:04 UTC
Shivus Tao wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)


CCP, At this speed it would be a neat feature to add bullet time effects. Imagine the psychological effect of seeing the shells from hundreds of artybaddons and maelstroms converging on your ship mere pixels at a time.


I am hoping this is the reason the devs stopped talking about new weapon effects. They started working on them, then TiDi looked like it was going to happen and they had to start over and make them look nice in slow motion.
Velarra
#25 - 2011-11-08 08:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Alex Sinai wrote:
Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance.


The cause of this "feeling" comes down to one very specific type of camera motion where there is an expected halt location & differing actual halt location.

Under non-dilated circumstances, if in space and you casually move a camera around a ship partially spinning the camera and abruptly halting its movement at an intended specific location, it will naturally stop. Where it precisely stops tends to be a minor fraction of space beyond the absolute stop point (at the time your mouse stopped moving and you willfully halted its movement) and where it actually stops moving. You might term it a very minor form of faux-inertia. It's barely noticeable.

When an environment is time-dilated this minor inertia effect is magnified. Everything swims across the screen, its movement and perceptual physical constants exaggerated. So?

The problem is that this exaggerated effect is playing havoc with the human balance system. The moment you begin fooling with proprioception and exteroception ( http://www.sectiononewrestling.com/documents/components_human_balance_system.html ) in multimedia that the public/your customers encounter you're guaranteed to find a % who become violently nauseated and prone to unexpected porcelain alter worship.

Solution: remove that specific camera exaggeration, keep the rest if you want it.

Further, look to CQ and the overwhelming lag and low performance many were getting in it and still do. 4 FPS, 5FPS, 6 FPS and slow, jittery movements while trying to explore the CQ. Yet while slow, the camera halt points as you move within the fog of low FPS, are where they are expected to be by the user's sense of balance. Their physics of camera movement, amidst 3FPS performance is never exaggerated beyond average human expectation. While this drastic graphics card crushing and obviously beta software had much to be criticized for - how it handled camera movement from a user's biological / physical stand point was not one of its many glaring issues.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-11-08 08:37:28 UTC
Nemesis Factor wrote:
Quoting an idiot with my main to throw it in his face later.


Alex Sinai wrote:
In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.


I just read that and... Are you- you are dumb.

JITA won't have TiDi because JITA isn't laggy. It has it's own supernode and functions just fine under the player cap. stupid

If slow time is PHYCOLOGICALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, then so is lag, which is the ONLY time TiDi kicks. So it's either jittery slow lag, or smooth slow TiDi. stupid.

You act like people are going to be subject to bullet time whereas before they only dealth with real time. They're going to be putting up with slow time over EVEN SLOWER TIME.



Hey you can post with 100 mains of yours and with naked ass too if you wish to. Try to remember how many times you were right and how many wrong with Incarna? How many aggressive posts were posted by shitload of people that Incarna will be greatest stuff ever. And what was it exactly? An epic failure. Same awaits your beloved time dilation. I dont give a flying rat's ass if you belive it or not and dont care what you think. You will see it yourself. Especially knowing the history of how CCP implements things.

Don't let them fly safe!

sHERU
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-11-08 08:57:14 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)


That is interesting, so for example... serious **** goes down in a system... like someone trying to compromise the eve database or trying to crash the server in some form or manner.. CCP could just freeze the entire node to figure out what is going on?
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#28 - 2011-11-08 09:33:35 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
... a load of random crap.



honnestly alex.... i wouldnt worry your pretty little head about it. The grown ups will sort it out, you just go play with your toys now, so run along!
Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-11-08 09:57:06 UTC
sHERU wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)


That is interesting, so for example... serious **** goes down in a system... like someone trying to compromise the eve database or trying to crash the server in some form or manner.. CCP could just freeze the entire node to figure out what is going on?


If they are using in-game means, yes, they could. Actually, it should kick in automatically...
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#30 - 2011-11-08 12:38:39 UTC
Gecko O'Bac wrote:
sHERU wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
I was in a testing system when a GM set the dialation to 99-100% while i was trying to warp a dread :3 all effects basicly stoppede in on the spot :b looked awesome

I am looking forward to it, and i know its a better alternative to lag, and will encourage even larger fleets ;)


That is interesting, so for example... serious **** goes down in a system... like someone trying to compromise the eve database or trying to crash the server in some form or manner.. CCP could just freeze the entire node to figure out what is going on?


If they are using in-game means, yes, they could. Actually, it should kick in automatically...



in its current form veritas has already said that dynamically TiDi will not go past the 10% of normal time on its own, of course if a dev wants to come in and freeze the server in case theres something a bit fishy going on, they can do that without any adverse omgbluescreenofdeathcrash or things of that effect.

ive seen it done, ive video'd it and put it on youtube. It was ******* cool and it was a moment when Veritas basically proclaimed himself as an omnipotent coding god.

ive been in many 'soul crushig lag' fights, of particular interest were the 020 engagements and Uemon. Uemon was particularly brutal with crimewatch really bringing the hurt in terms of lag.

im very confident that those kinda of mind numbing fights are going to be a thing of the past. no more modules red blinky for 20 to 30 minutes or ur ship flying off in a straight line for an hour or so!
Ariane VoxDei
#31 - 2011-11-08 15:03:22 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Time dilation is manually set to 50% in several systems on Singularity for testing purposes

Any chances of you telling us where we can find some systems with heavier dilations (more slowdown than 50%) for some messing around and sexy slowmotion fraps?

Or setting a few ones up - remember to pick some that have stations with seeded markets.
Avernus Ravenwing
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-11-08 15:11:41 UTC
hella dramatic... i suppose people prefer the screen freezing for 10 minutes then appearing in your pod at home base, to a little bit of game slowdown?
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-11-08 20:12:47 UTC
OP is dumb. Stop feeding trolls

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Insane Randomness
Stellar Pilgrimage
#34 - 2011-11-09 05:03:10 UTC
Ariane VoxDei wrote:
I was just hoping it would be a thing for blob warfare only.

If it is like this all the time it is pretty horrible,but was interesting to see it in action.


I traveled to jita just tonight, never saw any dialation. They might have had the threshold set low, I doubt it'll be like that on TQ, even in Jita at peek hours, since I hardly get any lag there anyways.
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