These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Democracy versus dictatorship
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#61 - 2013-06-27 18:27:24 UTC
Democracy is the belief that an illiterate farm hand is just as capable of making intelligent political decisions as a tenured university professor, and should thus be allowed equal political influence. Considering the ratio of illiterate farm hands versus tenured university professors in any nation, the resulting political disasters arising thereof should be of no surprise to anyone.

If you want a solid argument against democracy you need only speak to it's typical participant for five minutes or so. One can not expect the common rabble, educated only through propaganda, media channels and hereditary ignorance, to even be capable of making the right choices, let alone be given a choice in whether or not to do so.

Letting a commoner make political decisions is akin to letting a plumber perform brain surgery. They are the wrong tool for the job. Leadership is best left to those properly raised, educated and trained for that specific task, for they are the correct tools for the job.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#62 - 2013-06-27 19:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo Lyserius
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Democracy is the belief that an illiterate farm hand is just as capable of making intelligent political decisions as a tenured university professor, and should thus be allowed equal political influence. Considering the ratio of illiterate farm hands versus tenured university professors in any nation, the resulting political disasters arising thereof should be of no surprise to anyone.

If you want a solid argument against democracy you need only speak to it's typical participant for five minutes or so. One can not expect the common rabble, educated only through propaganda, media channels and hereditary ignorance, to even be capable of making the right choices, let alone be given a choice in whether or not to do so.

Letting a commoner make political decisions is akin to letting a plumber perform brain surgery. They are the wrong tool for the job. Leadership is best left to those properly raised, educated and trained for that specific task, for they are the correct tools for the job.


Cute definition of Democracy you have there, but that political system where the masses take political decisions exists only in your head, my lady.

As I said in my previous post (Which is just one before yours and which you didn't even take your time to read, setting yourself the example why the illiterate average citizen shouldn't be able to take decisions), in a actual Democracy (The kind that exists, the kind the Federation adopts, not the fiction that you believed was true all these years, much like your God) people don't make any decision: They only choose those who will make for them, and these are usually quite far from being illiterate, specially if you consider the cost of a good campaign these years.

So, echoing a voice from the past: Democracy is, for it's flaws, the worst form of government one could have imagined. Except for all the others humanity has tried.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-06-27 19:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi
Apollo Lyserius wrote:
As I said in my previous post (Which is just one before yours and which you didn't even take your time to read, setting yourself the example why the illiterate average citizen shouldn't be able to take decisions), in a actual Democracy (The kind that exists, the kind the Federation adopts, not the fiction that you believed was true all these years, much like your God) people don't make any decision: They only choose those who will make for them, and these are usually quite far from being illiterate, specially if you consider the cost of a good campaign these years.


If you're talking about the Federal government itself, then yes, you're correct. However, once you start looking at the governments of the various member states - which is where a lot of the most interesting stuff happens - things can look very different. A sizable minority of the member states in the Federation are direct democracies, where most of the local government decisions are made by popular vote. Some of the larger direct democracy member states use very interesting technological means to enable this. These direct democracies, combined with hybrid democracies (where about half of the decisions are made by popular vote), make up the vast majority of the member states of the Federation. Purely representational democracies are a distinct minority here.

If you're interested, I'd recommend this overview of the various democratic systems used among Federation member states.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#64 - 2013-06-27 19:58:15 UTC
Indeed, Mrs. Akahoshi, I was talking about the Federation democracy. Direct democracies are a quite different system, in my opinion, and as we know, suited mostly for small, non-massified populations.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-06-27 21:20:04 UTC
I've never married, actually.

In any case, I don't think we're understanding one another's terms.

When you say "the Federation democracy", are you talking about the democratic system used within the Federation government (FedGov), or are you talking about any democratic systems used by the various member states of the Federation?

The FedGov strictly speaking is a hybrid democratic system. The President and Senators are elected, as you describe. However, about half of the decisions made within the FedGov are done so via direct public referenda.

The individual member states govern themselves under a number of different democratic systems. However, as the overview I linked above points out, the vast majority are at least hybrid democracies, with at least half of the governmental decisions decided directly by the voting populace.

As an aside, it's interesting to look at how extremely large direct democracies function in the Federation. Heavy investment in education, cultural focuses on participation, public analysis, even the use of AIs.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#66 - 2013-06-27 21:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo Lyserius
Then I'm sorry, Miss Akahoshi.

Indeed it is merely a problem with terms. I believe I'm being too strict with them. But in the end we are speaking of the same.

The Federation Government is an indirect democracy. What is called "hybrid" or "semi-direct" democracy isn't a form of government, but institutions of direct democracy inside a indirect democracy. Since semi-direct democracy never happens continuously, but only happens now and then (Otherwise it would be a direct democracy), academically there has never been a state classified as a "Semi-direct" or "Hybrid" democracy.

Political decisions aren't all quite well made by the population - as you said, they are made through referenda, which means laws and other decisions are brought to the public for approval after they've been done, many times in a merely consultive manner. Besides, our Executive and Legislative elected representatives still retain a degree of autonomy from the people's imperative mandate, meaning deontologically they still look after the interests of the Federation as a whole, and not those specific interests of those who elected them. But as I said, that is the idealistic conception, since we all know our representatives are subject to lobby and corruption as much as the Caldari leaders are subject to corporativism in detriment of meritocracy.

And as comment on your aside, it is indeed quite interesting to see how large direct democracies have managed to become through our history. I believe, however, we may never attain a truly universal direct democracy again.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#67 - 2013-06-27 21:59:48 UTC
I stand amazed at the rancor and acrimony this topic has generated. Perhaps its more to do with the personality’s involved than the ideals discussed.

I have visited many places and found things to admire about nearly every one of them. The Empire, the State, and yes even the Tribal Entity.

The Federation is a collection of many nationalities and governmental types whose overarching law is near universal suffrage.

I heard a elder politician, that I considered wise, say something to the effect that, “democracy is the absolute worst form of government, until you consider all the rest.”

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#68 - 2013-06-27 23:57:04 UTC
Apollo Lyserius wrote:


3 - Someone has spoken also that democractic elected leaders aren't the most capable administrators, because they rely on social skills to win elections. Well, I like to think the best politicians are those who can work people to get their best - just like the best Fleet Commander often isn't the best pilot. To choose a leader based on this capabilities on the matter, but not on the skills to lead, is to fall into a poor technocracy. That's why our best leaders have their technical advisors. We don't want any geeky mathematicians managing our enterprises, do we?

I believe this is directed at my comments. I won't reply to the other point as I believe I have made it clear, even if it's not my preferred system, I can at least see the facts that the Federation's system of government has proven to be at least serviceable for its function.

I am not entirely sure you understand. You are right, the best fleet commanders aren't always the best pilots; at the same time, they don't get to be fleet commanders until they have proven themselves to be adept at commanding smaller groups. Oratory skills are not the same as leadership skills; I have known a number of leaders who are great at it, and are even cunning strategists and tacticians, but still suck when it comes to briefings and some would rather not appear before hundreds of civilians and give a speech.


There may be an overlap in some skills, but public oration is NOT equivalent with leadership ability, and does not automatically mean that person has good decision making ability. Beyond that let's remember this is PUBLIC speaking we are talking about, administration involves interacting with people on a smaller scale and making decisions, public speaking has less of that. I've seen people who were very eloquent speakers, but couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. By your example, choosing a leader based on their ability to work a crowd is like choosing a fleet commander based on who was the best pilot.

As I said, the issue I take is that getting elected does not depend on leadership skills, and you can't guarantee that good oratory skills and good leadership skills are coincident in any given person. Public elections simply chooses based on the wrong skillset.
You basically make my point for me when you say " To choose a leader based on this capabilities on the matter, but not on the skills to lead, is to fall into a poor technocracy.". In this case, "capabilities in this matter" is public speaking, and the ability to make convincing arguments.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:


As I said in my previous post (Which is just one before yours and which you didn't even take your time to read, setting yourself the example why the illiterate average citizen shouldn't be able to take decisions), in a actual Democracy (The kind that exists, the kind the Federation adopts, not the fiction that you believed was true all these years, much like your God) people don't make any decision: They only choose those who will make for them, and these are usually quite far from being illiterate, specially if you consider the cost of a good campaign these years.

Again, though they don't make all the decisions, those citizens DO choose the people that do make the decisions. That in itself is an extremely important decision that shouldn't be taken lightly and should be an informed one. In this case, deciding on the wrong person could lead to dozens of bad descriptions even if the citizens aren't making the subsequent ones. Also, the Federation does put a large number of things to public vote, so it isn't a full representational democracy.
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#69 - 2013-06-28 01:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo Lyserius
Indeed you're right, Mr. Kraid, and I do agree you at a certain point. I don't believe, however, anyone makes it far in the political career with only oratory skills. Those who possess only such skills and not proper decision making abilities almost always get recalled quite soon. I do believe that a similar mechanism is also present in the Caldari State's political system, in another form.

Social skills are, however, quite essential to the political job. Politics are politics, and management is management. Politics require social skills, management requires administration skills. What I meant is that we don't get the best public administrators in the job, because these often can't do well with politics, but the best politicians. And a good politician has a mix of several skills, of which social skills make the bulk of it.

Concerning the choice of the representative, that's why, as Miss Akahoshi, said, we invest heavily in education, and are equipped with recall and public debate mechanisms.

In the end, as I said in my first post, my intention here isn't to brag Democracy as THE best form of government for all peoples in New Eden. To believe a system may apply to any state, regardless of their social, cultural and economical configuration is pure and worst institutional fundamentalism, and to profess it like a priest is to equal the Amarr fundamentalists in their inherent inconvenience.

My intent here was to explain why democracy is the best form of government for the Federation. It suits and works best with our society, with our many cultures, with our free economy, and no one can question that.

With no pretension of imposing my favourite system to anyone, I'm here because debate is the source of all new ideas, and through them we may constantly improve our own political system, lest we fall behind, much like the Amarr.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#70 - 2013-06-28 04:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Apollo Lyserius wrote:

Cute definition of Democracy you have there, but that political system where the masses take political decisions exists only in your head, my lady.

As I said in my previous post (Which is just one before yours and which you didn't even take your time to read, setting yourself the example why the illiterate average citizen shouldn't be able to take decisions), in a actual Democracy (The kind that exists, the kind the Federation adopts, not the fiction that you believed was true all these years, much like your God) people don't make any decision: They only choose those who will make for them, and these are usually quite far from being illiterate, specially if you consider the cost of a good campaign these years.


Congratulations, you have just perfectly described a Republic, not a Democracy.

Now you were saying something about "education" I believe?

It should also be noted that it is the Caldari State and not the Federation that has found a way to make representative democracy actually viable. Whilst the CEOs vote on State matters, and the various Boards of Directors vote on decisions within their respective corporations, those positions are not in themselves democratically decided. They are, as the Caldari people will gladly remind everyone, a meritocracy. Thus the true possession of political power is earned rather than freely given to anyone based on the mere qualification of simply being born. In such a system the idea of casting ballots to make decisions is something even we Imperials can accept (mayhaps even admire) because only the most qualified people (read: those who have proven their leadership skills and ability) actually get a say in the political process.

In other words, within the Caldari State only the best & brightest get to lead. In the Empire we prefer a more hereditary system, naturally, yet even our own selection of a new Empress/Emperor follows this Caldari method of "trial by fire" to see who is the most worthy. As I am often wont to say, we gain & learn much from our allies to the north.

But by all means, continue to believe that the Federation holds a monopoly on the very idea of elections. It is... amusing.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Derin Phobos
Kinetic Technologies
#71 - 2013-06-28 05:06:40 UTC
Apollo Lyserius wrote:


1 - How do you expect us to buy your meritocracy if you won't buy our democracy?



Mr. Lyserius, you are making the assumption that the State cares if you "buy" it's meritocracy. In truth, the State has very few political concerns outside of defending its own territory. The Federation could be a coalition of militant vegan technocratic anarchists, as long as it is financially stable enough for trade and leaves the State alone.

I would recommend reviewing the events of Colelie, and taking to heart that while not every empire is as impulsive as the Republic, the irritation of Gallente cultural imperialism remains.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-06-28 07:08:03 UTC
Jarac Raasen wrote:
The Federation is not perfect. We Intaki can tell you first-hand that this is not the case. Remember, it was the people who allowed a dictator to rule over us during the Gallente-Caldari War. And it was this that led to the expulsion of many of my brothers and sisters to form the Syndicate. Again, the Federation, our democracy, isn't perfect; it can and has been manipulated. Every government system has. The Caldari with Heth, for example. Yet even Heth is being hunted down like a dog for overextending his boundaries. He reached for the sun and got burned.

In the discussion about dictatorship, please stay away from our heroes like Heth-haan. You have just shown, that you didn't know who he is, what he did and what happened. If you want to know - ask about it. If you don't want to know - just keep it shut and don't build crazy theories.
For you and other jaijii, who didn't read previous replies or have no idea what the State is, I will tell these words: Executor Heth is not and never was a dictator.
If any of "Caldari" will say you otherwise, feel free to throw rotten tomatoes at them, since they are not Caldari. Or some sort of gallentean-influenced asylum runaways.

Jarac Raasen wrote:

We of the Gallente Federation should be proud of our democracy; proud that people have a voice.

If you love this filth and proud with it, then hell with you. Enjoy it. Just don't bring this stuff to us. It is disgusting and inefficient.
You try to infect our peoples with your filth - we kill you. Deal?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-06-28 07:23:01 UTC
Apollo Lyserius wrote:

1 - How do you expect us to buy your meritocracy if you won't buy our democracy? Are you really so naive, dishonest or stupid to think that, just like you won't buy that democracy ensures every voice is heard, the best decisions are taken and the most competent leaders are chosen, we are buying that your meritocracy ensures every citizen starts with the same opportunities to earn merit, is rewarded and advances politically exactly according to his capabilities and merits - that is the funniest of all premises, considering you are, by definition, corporativist - or even that those on top won't try to supress those on the bottom but with greater capabilities and potential, while they're still growing? Please. If your top-bosses aren't making sure they remain in power by limiting the younger enterpreneurs, they're either stupid or naive. Your corporations wouldn't be much of some brilliant corporations if they didn't lend a hand to those less capable of their own in detriment of a more capable stranger, would they?

This was democracy vs dictatorship, not meritocracy vs democracy.
Well, why we would sell you our meritocracy? We are pretty happy with it. It is one of the most efficient systems, that makes us superior. With our meritocracy we will crush your forces even when you have greater numbers. But we have proper management and quality. Do I feel like I want YOU to try our meritocracy and use it against us? NOPE.

The problem with Federation, is that it tries to sell its inferior inefficient ancient filthy democracy to others. It is a hostile move, since if we will take it, we will drop to the inferior level as the Federation, and gallentean scum can just overwhelm us with numbers. It is our duty to fight democracy and prevent ourselves and other nations from gallentean's attempt to make us and other nations weaker.


Apollo Lyserius wrote:

2 - Democracy has worked so far. The Federation is prosper, militarily strong and in it's own way has brought good living standards to it's people. And fun, we have a lot of fun, that sure is progress. We judge that people are excellent to choose, but terrible to rule, so we have our representative system, thus, it is pointless to say that "the people makes all the decisions". Of course, we also have our direct participation mechanisms to ensure that this will of the people is also well reflected, though not imperative. We also have great food, by the way.

You can land on an asteroid with a shovel and dig some ore. It will work too, just as your democracy. Will give you some physical exercise as well. Even if people don't take decisions themselves, those, who represent them, follow their ideas. In the end, it is desire of the mob, whatever side you turn it. Grey stupid gallentean mob.
Oh, and, by the way, gallentean food stinks.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:

3 - Someone has spoken also that democractic elected leaders aren't the most capable administrators, because they rely on social skills to win elections. Well, I like to think the best politicians are those who can work people to get their best - just like the best Fleet Commander often isn't the best pilot. To choose a leader based on this capabilities on the matter, but not on the skills to lead, is to fall into a poor technocracy. That's why our best leaders have their technical advisors. We don't want any geeky mathematicians managing our enterprises, do we?

Fleet Commanders rely neither on piloting skills, nor on social skills. They rely on skills in tactics and human resource management. Charismatic leader without these skills will be as terrible, as regular combat pilot in the role of fleet commander. Although, fleet commander, who has better knowledge of piloting ships, is more valuable than charismatic fleet commander, that doesn't have knowledge of piloting ships.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:

4 - Mrs. Kim, I often see you spilling so much hatred against the Federation around here on the IGS. It's tacit to me that hate is mosty an irrational feeling, so I'd like to ask you: Which Gallente boy has broken your heart?
I know what ails you, so I'd love to invite you to have some coffee, or watch a movie in Caille. Afterwards I would also like to see all that anti-democratic and anti-gallentean passion and fiery behaviour as I introduce in - I mean, to - you the Bastion of Liberty, a... Gallente monument I'm particularly proud of.

I am Caldari and I never tainted honor of myself, my State and my corporation by having relations with a gallentean !

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#74 - 2013-06-28 07:27:43 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

I am Caldari and I never tainted honor of myself, my State and my corporation by having relations with a gallentean !


Now I'm not saying that we did the rough-and-tumble...

But it looks could knock people up, then I'd be pregnant with triplets after some of the looks you've shot me across the GalNet. ♥

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-06-28 08:17:22 UTC
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

I am Caldari and I never tainted honor of myself, my State and my corporation by having relations with a gallentean !


Now I'm not saying that we did the rough-and-tumble...

But it looks could knock people up, then I'd be pregnant with triplets after some of the looks you've shot me across the GalNet. ♥

This is both theoretically and practically impossible. We both are of the same sex, you know?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#76 - 2013-06-28 08:19:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

This is both theoretically and practically impossible. We both are of the same sex, you know?


It's happened before! It's one of the side effects over over consumption of Quafe Zero! Or anyway, that's like, what I heard!

♥

And it was on a GalNet news site, so it must be true!

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-06-28 08:51:02 UTC
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

This is both theoretically and practically impossible. We both are of the same sex, you know?


It's happened before! It's one of the side effects over over consumption of Quafe Zero! Or anyway, that's like, what I heard!

♥

And it was on a GalNet news site, so it must be true!

I really doubt that Quafe Zero will grow you that thing... you know what. Well, I haven't tried myself, but I believe it is impossible.
And without that thing it is impossible too. Because biology. Do you, or peoples in GalNet news site know about this? You do know, that humans are heterogamous species, right?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#78 - 2013-06-28 09:01:05 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

And without that thing it is impossible too. Because biology. Do you, or peoples in GalNet news site know about this? You do know, that humans are heterogamous species, right?


Pfish, and I guess you know better than the experts and Top Men at Fedo News, huh?

Those guys are the best, they play all my favorite advertisements. ♥

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-06-28 10:13:24 UTC
Aaaaaaah, Gallentean freaks!

*quickly turns off feed*

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#80 - 2013-06-28 11:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo Lyserius
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:


Congratulations, you have just perfectly described a Republic, not a Democracy.

Now you were saying something about "education" I believe?

It should also be noted that it is the Caldari State and not the Federation that has found a way to make representative democracy actually viable. Whilst the CEOs vote on State matters, and the various Boards of Directors vote on decisions within their respective corporations, those positions are not in themselves democratically decided. They are, as the Caldari people will gladly remind everyone, a meritocracy. Thus the true possession of political power is earned rather than freely given to anyone based on the mere qualification of simply being born. In such a system the idea of casting ballots to make decisions is something even we Imperials can accept (mayhaps even admire) because only the most qualified people (read: those who have proven their leadership skills and ability) actually get a say in the political process.

In other words, within the Caldari State only the best & brightest get to lead. In the Empire we prefer a more hereditary system, naturally, yet even our own selection of a new Empress/Emperor follows this Caldari method of "trial by fire" to see who is the most worthy. As I am often wont to say, we gain & learn much from our allies to the north.

But by all means, continue to believe that the Federation holds a monopoly on the very idea of elections. It is... amusing.


You shouldn't have slept on your political science classes, my lady. Go read something on autonomy of the elected representatives and stop juggling with your own personal definitions, please.

Derin Phobos wrote:
Mr. Lyserius, you are making the assumption that the State cares if you "buy" it's meritocracy. In truth, the State has very few political concerns outside of defending its own territory. The Federation could be a coalition of militant vegan technocratic anarchists, as long as it is financially stable enough for trade and leaves the State alone.

I would recommend reviewing the events of Colelie, and taking to heart that while not every empire is as impulsive as the Republic, the irritation of Gallente cultural imperialism remains.


Mr. Phobos, "to buy" something simply means "To believe in". I have no intention of exporting our democracy to your State neither of importing your meritocratic system to ours. But if you have spent a little bit of your time to come here and argue on political systems, you do care a bit if we somehow believe in your system. Sincerely, I don't. Corporativism and meritocracy as bases of a same system are a quite funny idea to me, so I wonder which one of those is an illusion to make you look beautiful and which one actually works. Considering who are your leaders, I may already have an idea.

And concerning cultural imperialism, we don't even have to make an effort, and we don't, it just happens naturally, as your people and other peoples always buy - and now I mean in the literal sense - our cultural products.

Diana Kim wrote:
This was democracy vs dictatorship, not meritocracy vs democracy.
Well, why we would sell you our meritocracy? We are pretty happy with it. It is one of the most efficient systems, that makes us superior. With our meritocracy we will crush your forces even when you have greater numbers. But we have proper management and quality. Do I feel like I want YOU to try our meritocracy and use it against us? NOPE.

The problem with Federation, is that it tries to sell its inferior inefficient ancient filthy democracy to others. It is a hostile move, since if we will take it, we will drop to the inferior level as the Federation, and gallentean scum can just overwhelm us with numbers. It is our duty to fight democracy and prevent ourselves and other nations from gallentean's attempt to make us and other nations weaker.


Cute. Do you know what a meritocracy is, Miss? A dictatorship of the merit. An oligarchy. You don't get to question your leaders often, do you?

As I explained to Mr. Phobos, "to buy", in this sense, has a different meaning, so no, thank you, I don't believe your system is as efficient as it seems in your head, neither I want to sell you - strictu sensu - our democracy.

Quote:
You can land on an asteroid with a shovel and dig some ore. It will work too, just as your democracy. Will give you some physical exercise as well. Even if people don't take decisions themselves, those, who represent them, follow their ideas. In the end, it is desire of the mob, whatever side you turn it. Grey stupid gallentean mob.
Oh, and, by the way, gallentean food stinks.


Oh, the naivety of simplification. Yes, Miss, it's simple like that. I recommend you the same reading as the one I did to Lady Devonshire.

Note to self: Avoid analogies.

Quote:
I am Caldari and I never tainted honor of myself, my State and my corporation by having relations with a gallentean !


That only spices things up.