These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Should remove PLEX as a form of payment... pull the free to play

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2013-06-27 17:54:37 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
You lost me at the "SINCE NEITHER SKILLS TRAINED NOR PLAYER SKILL ARE AFFECTED BY ISK" comment.... you obviously haven't heard of the Character Bazaar.... it's a place where you CAN BUY VERY SKILLED characters, that you can BUY cool ships for, that you CAN Multibox with to EXPLOIT the Players who don't do any of those things and just skill and Sub, grind, trade, etc.....

P2W.....
…except that no “win” is bought — assets are just transferred. You're effectively suggesting that, when I go to Jita to buy myself a couple of newly-manufactured Blaster Cannon IIs, I'm paying to win.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#102 - 2013-06-27 17:59:37 UTC
destiny2 wrote:
players that buy plex for that nice shiney ship are the ones putting them on the market.

Scenario 1

Poster gets plexes to be removed.

Scenario 2

Poster Wants a titan the realizes **** grinding, with even 5 toons is still hard to grind isk for a titan
then realizes oh i wish i could buy some plexes too.

Scenario 3.

Poster is eathier someone who is to stupid to actually realise what a contract actually says and got scammed.

I'm gonna go with all of the above. Obviously he read a contract wrong and got scammed Shocked



Sceneario for, Poster thinks plex is p2w, buys a titan with plex, then gets tackled by a onyx and loses his titan, his p2w blown up.
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#103 - 2013-06-27 18:01:42 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Show me anywhere in the game that I can make 500-600m ISK/hr

If you have 5 characters you could make approx 2b/h in a c5 Pay for those 5 characters in an hour and a half and then the rest is profit. Would probably be difficult to manage though. You asked though.
Franco Stein
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-06-27 18:08:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Franco Stein wrote:
You lost me at the "SINCE NEITHER SKILLS TRAINED NOR PLAYER SKILL ARE AFFECTED BY ISK" comment.... you obviously haven't heard of the Character Bazaar.... it's a place where you CAN BUY VERY SKILLED characters, that you can BUY cool ships for, that you CAN Multibox with to EXPLOIT the Players who don't do any of those things and just skill and Sub, grind, trade, etc.....

P2W.....
…except that no “win” is bought — assets are just transferred. You're effectively suggesting that, when I go to Jita to buy myself a couple of newly-manufactured Blaster Cannon IIs, I'm paying to win.


You puzzle me?

What does buying something in JITA have to do with Buying ISK via a real life transaction to get a TIme Code to sell to get ISK..
If you buy stuff with Real Life money, you did nothing in Game to EARN that benefit for that SPECIFIC Transaction. You may use that PLEX to trade stuff and EARN in game ISK, but that is following a cheat..... try earning EVERYTHING is game based on your OWN efforts during YOUR PLAY TIME with YOUR CHARACTER..... anything else is Exploiting...

PLEX was created to funnel the money to CCP instead of Shark websites that sell ISK for RL Money.. for people who don't want to EARN stuff on their own and want a CHEAT code and a PLAY NOW BUTTON.. there is other ways to restrict or eliminate those website ISK scams.
Doc Spectre
Doomheim
#105 - 2013-06-27 18:17:42 UTC
I don't log on to work either. I pay 5 accounts with cash once a year and the 6th I pay monthly. That's not gonna change unless I start up more accounts to pay monthly...
Franco Stein
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-06-27 18:24:36 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
destiny2 wrote:
players that buy plex for that nice shiney ship are the ones putting them on the market.

Scenario 1

Poster gets plexes to be removed.

Scenario 2

Poster Wants a titan the realizes **** grinding, with even 5 toons is still hard to grind isk for a titan
then realizes oh i wish i could buy some plexes too.

Scenario 3.

Poster is eathier someone who is to stupid to actually realise what a contract actually says and got scammed.

I'm gonna go with all of the above. Obviously he read a contract wrong and got scammed Shocked



Sceneario for, Poster thinks plex is p2w, buys a titan with plex, then gets tackled by a onyx and loses his titan, his p2w blown up.



What?
How is this any sort of argument about funding your GEAR/CHARACTERS/ETC. with Real Life Money. If you EARN a titan you have every right to be stupid with it...... If you buy a Titan with RL money and loss it, you EXPLOITED to get it and are Stupid for losing it.... so?

Let me fix your model.
1) In the P2W model you just figure, well I lost $50 dollars of real money (or whatever) and I make $25 an hour at my RL job, so only two hours of time lost...no biggie... I'll just buy another and be as stupid as I want to be..... (Great for F2P Lifers wallets)

2) In the EARN your Way in game Model....... WTF, I just lost a ship that I spent 2 weeks grinding for... I am so Stupid...

Is there a difference.... pick your ship, pick your play style...
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2013-06-27 18:25:29 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
PLEX was created to funnel the money to CCP instead of Shark websites that sell ISK for RL Money..


The experiment worked. But it also has other problems it introduced and one is the hyper-inflation (worst I've seen in gaming -- PLEX was selling for around 250mil ISK in 2010, it's getting to 600mil in 2013 -- RL PLEX price is the same. Such controls are also suppose to curb the inflation, not hyper-inflate it).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#108 - 2013-06-27 18:28:19 UTC
So in sitting by my pool drinking some beer right now and it dawned on me, oh wait I lost it. Hmmm when did they fix the forums to post from smart phones. Awesomeness.
Commander Rahl
Life. Universe. Everything.
#109 - 2013-06-27 18:36:19 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The way things are now, if PLEX didn't exist, I doubt EvE would have more than 200k subs. A lot of that 500k are extra accounts (as it took more than 1 account to raise another toon until this expansion). Only way to pay for that with kids is to PLEX for "free" game time.

I sub, as it's a better way to budget (set price a month). Ironically, it's due to that set price that allows having more than 1 account. F2P model and all the nickel and diming is how it stays afloat, but devs can't budget like that. Which is also why I believe Blizzard continues on the subscription model for WoW, as it's a consistent cashflow to budget with each month.

Micro pay model is what kids enjoy, but in reality there's no free lunch. Any F2P scheme out there is paid for by other means (CCP does the "free" expansions and all by PLEX and time-code sales). They're just deferring the cost onto others paying for it (leeches).


League of Legends is by far the biggest game in the world and it is purely run off of micro transactions that do no affect the balance of the game. Riot games literally pays professional LoL players six figure salaries and supplies the money for the biggest LoL tournament. The free to play model will be the standard model in the future, whether you like it or not.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#110 - 2013-06-27 18:42:25 UTC
smokess wrote:

1. CCP makes more money from PLEX purchasers than they do from regular subscription fees.

2. How does someone paying for PLEX with ISK affect 'the sandbox'? Paying for ISK by buying PLEX maybe.

3. How would people paying for the game 'out of pocket' make PvP and PvE better?

4. 'Entrenched player base that pays nothing' means nothing. CCP don't seed PLEX onto the market unless special circumstances occur within which they need to stabilise the prices of them. All PLEX you see in Jita, Rens, Dodixie - anywhere for that matter - have been bought by a player and CCP have received revenue from them.


↑ ↑ ↑ Welp, there ya go, OP...now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna buy a PLEX with isk...maybe more - you've inspired me

EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#111 - 2013-06-27 19:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Abon
Dear OP,

Since you are incredible dense (no offence seriously but you are) i propose an experiment.

I want you to buy some PLEX for real money and sell those PLEX in Jita. Afterwards i want you to buy your P2W 1337 carrier pilot on the char bazaar. Then you will proceed to put that character into a new shiny officer fitted carrier (bought with PLEX of course). You can then proceed to a lowsec system of your choosing where i will visit you in my own plebian and worthless carrier that i bought by "grinding" (aka blowing up some poor guy and taking his cargo which takes like 2 minutes but ok.) I am a worthless player who pays his sub with CC so i cannot afford officer modules of course. The grind would simply take years and years.Roll

Since according to your logic your master race officer fitted carrier is a P2W carrier you can commence melting my puny carrier to slag since i have no chance whatsoever and should better eject right away. Let me know when you have set up everything so we can enjoy solid proof of your believes.

(Disclaimer: Sarcasm, you will probably die in <5 minutes and i will loot your P2W ubermods. Pirate Play this game for a year and we talk again...maybe.)

Ugh
Franco Stein
Doomheim
#112 - 2013-06-27 19:11:28 UTC
smokess wrote:
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.



Your thought process is nonsensical.

1. CCP makes more money from PLEX purchasers than they do from regular subscription fees.

2. How does someone paying for PLEX with ISK affect 'the sandbox'? Paying for ISK by buying PLEX maybe.

3. How would people paying for the game 'out of pocket' make PvP and PvE better?

4. 'Entrenched player base that pays nothing' means nothing. CCP don't seed PLEX onto the market unless special circumstances occur within which they need to stabilise the prices of them. All PLEX you see in Jita, Rens, Dodixie - anywhere for that matter - have been bought by a player and CCP have received revenue from them.


Now **** off.



You seem to be concerned only that CCP makes money.... They should make money based on a game of merit, not addiction!

To answer you questions though, here you are.

1) CCP will not truly know what their actual player revenues could be since their model is so wrong, but gaming companies tend to not have a feature that allows players to buy advantage with real money, such as this game so clearly does. Entropia is another I can think of off hand.
2) PLEX is REAL MONEY plain and simple. if CCP wanted people to have extended play via an in game currency like ISK, they would not use PLEX, they would use ISK to extend game time. The Sandbox if clearly effected by REAL MONEY since those who have it will have a clear advantage to those that grind for it, no matter what that grind is. Come on, does someone have to tell you a thousand times that buying GEAR is wrong, Buying skills (via Character Bazaar) is wrong, ... you didn't earn it, so you shouldn't call it skill.
3) If you remove PLEX you will reduce accounts, create real risk, inspire new players to get involved and reduce many of the lifers from so much control over a game that is long past their use.
4) CCP seeds PLEX when they need money, or PLEX supplies are low. PLEX has ALWAYS been available since it was introducted, with only the price changing. PLEX is Buying a win, no matter how it's spelled out.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#113 - 2013-06-27 19:14:34 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.


And watch the game die in 60 days.

Why, carebears? No Nullbears. When they cant PLEX their supercarriers they will cry like 8 year old girls with skinned knees. And ragequit.


Also, every time I burn PLEX I pay $17.50 to play the game. The fact that you don't understand that makes you kinda behind the curve.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Franco Stein
Doomheim
#114 - 2013-06-27 19:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Franco Stein
Abon wrote:
Dear OP,

Since you are incredible dense (no offence seriously but you are) i propose an experiment.

I want you to buy some PLEX for real money and sell those PLEX in Jita. Afterwards i want you to buy your P2W 1337 carrier pilot on the char bazaar. Then you will proceed to put that character into a new shiny officer fitted carrier (bought with PLEX of course). You can then proceed to a lowsec system of your choosing where i will visit you in my own plebian and worthless carrier that i bought by "grinding" (aka blowing up some poor guy and taking his cargo which takes like 2 minutes but ok.) I am a worthless player who pays his sub with CC so i cannot afford officer modules of course. The grind would simply take years and years.Roll

Since according to your logic your master race officer fitted carrier is a P2W carrier you can commence melting my puny carrier to slag since i have no chance whatsoever and should better eject right away. Let me know when you have set up everything so we can enjoy solid proof of your believes.

(Disclaimer: Sarcasm, you will probably die in <5 minutes and i will loot your P2W ubermods. Pirate Play this game for a year and we talk again...maybe.)

Ugh



Outside of the negative comment.... you are again mistaken.

With your logic CCP should do the following.

1) Remove any requirements to fly ships, mods, etc.
2) Stop the progressive skilling of characters.
3) Remove any leveling in game or character progression.

You could just as easily have a very skilled player who knows exactly how to win your above scenario, but only so darn lazy he refuses to work for it in game and throws down his cash to get this win....to make him feel like a big boy.

Learn the difference . . . . . it's not about skill, it's about long term players not paying anymore for the game and ANY player's ability to add RL money to a game to get a quick road to whatever!!!!

Remove PLEX and you will have to EARN your wins or truly FEEL those losses, and WAIT for those big finishes.
Tixam Quri
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2013-06-27 19:30:06 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.



Yeah.. let's punish all the people that keep this community alive.










troll

Jafit McJafitson- "try scamming people. it's like PvP, but with words. Their greed is your warp scrambler, your lies are your autocannons."
Tiven loves Tansien
Doomheim
#116 - 2013-06-27 19:33:12 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
Dear OP,

If Chribba is in opposition to your idea, then you're wrong.

That is all.



haha... why do you lick the white knight so much?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#117 - 2013-06-27 19:37:13 UTC
Someones parents wouldnt let them borrow the credit card to buy PLEX..... so logically PLEX should be removed from the game.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Tixam Quri
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-06-27 19:43:22 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
Outside of the negative comment.... you are again mistaken.

With your logic CCP should do the following.

1) Remove any requirements to fly ships, mods, etc.
2) Stop the progressive skilling of characters.
3) Remove any leveling in game or character progression.

You could just as easily have a very skilled player who knows exactly how to win your above scenario, but only so darn lazy he refuses to work for it in game and throws down his cash to get this win....to make him feel like a big boy.

Learn the difference . . . . . it's not about skill, it's about long term players not paying anymore for the game and ANY player's ability to add RL money to a game to get a quick road to whatever!!!!

Remove PLEX and you will have to EARN your wins or truly FEEL those losses, and WAIT for those big finishes.


Is that what it is OP? Are you truly FEELING your losses?

So your mad because you HAVE to buy PLEX, and you are pissed because someone asploded your rifter and you burn with hatred just KNOWING that the SOB that made you $hit your shorts is some @sshole vet that farms for his plex?

Am I getting your vibe?

You have no proof of anything and you're whining in GD like a little girl.

Jafit McJafitson- "try scamming people. it's like PvP, but with words. Their greed is your warp scrambler, your lies are your autocannons."
Endeavour Starfleet
#119 - 2013-06-27 19:46:49 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.


So you want CCP as a business to suffer because YOU are not RL rich. Right?

This is not a good idea.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-06-27 19:46:52 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.


Not even worth arguing.

A resounding "no."