These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

missile dominance

Author
Kijimea
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-06-26 19:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijimea
Well i feel kinda like him. I mean in the past month whenever i read something about different aspects of EvE and ships it feels like tengu ist just everywhere. Tengu here tengu there. Kinda irritatting and i wonder why this ship must be so much better in various situations than the other t3 ships. I fly a legion even when ppl said legion is mostly worse(of course worse than a tengu), i fly it bec i dont like to fly the most popular ship, i fly it because the tengu is so ******* ugly.
So of course every ship and race has its goods and bads but i feel him. There is still this feeling due to all the threads the past years found on different forums that some things are way to popular compared to others which makes me believe they are not well balanced.
Jeann Valjean
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-06-26 20:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeann Valjean
Kijimea wrote:
There is still this feeling due to all the threads the past years found on different forums that some things are way to popular compared to others which makes me believe they are not well balanced.


Trickiest thing in EVE is figuring out which posts are still valid, and which are talking about mechanics that have been totally revamped.

Keep in mind what each of the major expansions have added/tweaked and it's a lot easier to weed out the... I don't want to say BS because it may have once been valid... but yeah. Just as a few examples:

- A lot of threads on ship popularity/fits from frigs through battleships are irrelevant now due to tiericide. If fitting advice is older than a year, ignore it.
- Anything referencing "Winmatar" for PvP is probably outdated. They're good, but not OP as they used to be.
- Armor is no longer inferior to shields like it used to be due to changes around Retribution. Shield fleets are no longer the rule in PvP, and armor fits have gained much in popularity. I'm not saying armor is better or shields aren't good- I'm just saying the dramatic imbalance has lessened.
- The old racial bonuses are totally gone. As a few people pointed out, Jita became the main market hub in part due to many people rolling Caldari pilots. This no longer holds true. Which is why I said originally that just because it remains the major hub doesn't mean Caldari is still the most popular race.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#43 - 2013-06-26 20:34:00 UTC
Jeann Valjean wrote:

- Armor is no longer inferior to shields like it used to be due to changes around Retribution. Shield fleets are no longer the rule in PvP, and armor fits have gained much in popularity. I'm not saying armor is better or shields aren't good- I'm just saying the dramatic imbalance has lessened.

For us in small gang gal/cal FW armor is not inferior. However, even here the kiting with range tactics win more often than the close up smash mouth tactics. Regardless, this is only one small slice of eve combat.

The unfortunate truth is that range and mobility, which shield and Cal/Min ships afford, combined with missiles being capless and having selectable damage are still, even after the Drake/HM nerfs, ruling eve combat in the larger view.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 The top 4 ships at this date are Caldari. The top two are missile boats. They all have range bonuses on missiles or guns, and they all shield tank. Further down the top 20, the fact that you can even have Talwars sitting in that list at number 8 tells you a lot about the strengths of missiles and shield (which affords mobility).

Jeann Valjean wrote:
- The old racial bonuses are totally gone. As a few people pointed out, Jita became the main market hub in part due to many people rolling Caldari pilots. This no longer holds true. Which is why I said originally that just because it remains the major hub doesn't mean Caldari is still the most popular race.

One would have to hear from CCP what the latest breakdown on race rolled is for new characters. Judging by the top four ships on eve-kill I would bet it is still Caldari. No longer is there a horde of 3 charisma Achura poncing around. But the ease of training into the top 4 ships if you start as Caldari can't be overlooked. This situation does not bode well for the continued health of the game.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
#44 - 2013-06-27 01:38:33 UTC
Quote:
One would have to hear from CCP what the latest breakdown on race rolled is for new characters. Judging by the top four ships on eve-kill I would bet it is still Caldari. No longer is there a horde of 3 charisma Achura poncing around. But the ease of training into the top 4 ships if you start as Caldari can't be overlooked. This situation does not bode well for the continued health of the game.


Totally off topic but I am a 3 char Achura Big smile

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-06-27 13:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Deacon Abox wrote:
Jeann Valjean wrote:

- Armor is no longer inferior to shields like it used to be due to changes around Retribution. Shield fleets are no longer the rule in PvP, and armor fits have gained much in popularity. I'm not saying armor is better or shields aren't good- I'm just saying the dramatic imbalance has lessened.

For us in small gang gal/cal FW armor is not inferior. However, even here the kiting with range tactics win more often than the close up smash mouth tactics. Regardless, this is only one small slice of eve combat.

The unfortunate truth is that range and mobility, which shield and Cal/Min ships afford, combined with missiles being capless and having selectable damage are still, even after the Drake/HM nerfs, ruling eve combat in the larger view.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 The top 4 ships at this date are Caldari. The top two are missile boats. They all have range bonuses on missiles or guns, and they all shield tank. Further down the top 20, the fact that you can even have Talwars sitting in that list at number 8 tells you a lot about the strengths of missiles and shield (which affords mobility).

Jeann Valjean wrote:
- The old racial bonuses are totally gone. As a few people pointed out, Jita became the main market hub in part due to many people rolling Caldari pilots. This no longer holds true. Which is why I said originally that just because it remains the major hub doesn't mean Caldari is still the most popular race.

One would have to hear from CCP what the latest breakdown on race rolled is for new characters. Judging by the top four ships on eve-kill I would bet it is still Caldari. No longer is there a horde of 3 charisma Achura poncing around. But the ease of training into the top 4 ships if you start as Caldari can't be overlooked. This situation does not bode well for the continued health of the game.


The real elephant in the room when discussing missiles-v-turrets is tracking disruptors.

Nearly everyone seems to be fitting TDs these days, and why not as they are in my opinion somewhat OP. Fitting missiles or rockets is the only way to counter TDs.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#46 - 2013-06-27 16:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
The real elephant in the room when discussing missiles-v-turrets is tracking disruptors.

Nearly everyone seems to be fitting TDs these days, and why not as they are in my opinion somewhat OP. Fitting missiles or rockets is the only way to counter TDs.

Yes. I argued in the previous initial and followup threads in F&I concerning the tech I ewar frigs that these ships should have been given the large bonus ecm boat treatment, and the ewar modules themselves a nerf in base strength.

As long as turrets have a working (and very well working) dedicated counter module and missiles have none this game favors missiles and is imbalanced. I'm talking specifically about solo and small gang. Against a missile boat you simply have to tank or try using piloting to mitigate damage. Against turrets you can do both as well and in addition you could have a module fit that specifically fubars your opponents' turrets.

Defenders are broken crap, and require a ship to have a launcher as well which many ships so not have. Smarties are not effective in a solo and small gang skirmish against missiles and are in fact more harmful to drones.

In a large null sec fleet engagement a smartie firewall can be used as an attempt to mitigate massed missile damage. However the continued success of missile boats, as demonstrated by their supremacy on the eve-kill top twenty, indicate that such is apparently not effective enough to deter the heavy use of missiles.

If either a script or sister module to the TD was introduced to the game to alter the range or explosion stats on enemy missiles it would do a lot to balance the weapons. Additionally, as you say, the balancing team should review the strength of non-ecm ewar on non-dedicated ships. TDs, Damps, and Painters could use a reduction in base strength and the dedicated ships an increase in ship bonus for those ewar modules to compensate.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2013-06-27 16:46:39 UTC
CALDARI is the SUPERIOR race!! :P

All other races are inferior.

Just Saying...

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Previous page123