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SMARTER T3 Rebalances, Please!

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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2013-06-26 16:57:48 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
it's like trying to do an omelete without having any eggs at all.


When has that ever stopped people from posting? Lol

point takenLol

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#262 - 2013-06-26 17:21:08 UTC
Boy it sure is a good thing there's a "No Rumors" policy... Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#263 - 2013-06-26 17:48:42 UTC
CCP has said multiple times that they intend to tweak T3s and the CSM have recently stated that they feel cloaky T3's to be OP. We would be doing ourselves a other non vocal T3 pilots a disservice if we refuse to discuss it ahead of time... That said, I agree that the discussion is a little pointless until we know what is going on with T2.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#264 - 2013-06-26 17:58:27 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


If price is not an issue, why don't people consider the vindicator OP in comparison to the megathron? It is accepted that the Vindi performs better because of the higher price and skill requirement.


It is a bit better. It doesnt, for example, have the ability to get a buffer seen in ships two classes above it.
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#265 - 2013-06-26 18:19:38 UTC
hurp legion is underpowered

best sniper t3 in game
active ham legion ftw
pulse legion best legion

seems like you just don't like Amarr to me.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#266 - 2013-06-26 18:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Proteus covert ops with plate interdiction nullified doing around 500 dps 120k EHP T2 fit.



You described a snowflake to support your argumentation, nothing else, bravo.

Tell me more about uber Tengu fleets with 200K EHP and awesome dps, are they going to start fitting 3 Estamels and faction extenders?

Lol


Edit because it's worth the effort: with 3 Estamels I'm sure they can get about 250

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2013-06-26 18:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Proteus covert ops with plate interdiction nullified doing around 500 dps 120k EHP T2 fit.



You described a snowflake to support your argumentation, nothing else, bravo.

Tell me more about uber Tengu fleets with 200K EHP and awesome dps, are they going to start fitting 3 Estamels and faction extenders?

Lol


Edit because it's worth the effort: with 3 Estamels I'm sure they can get about 250


120k is battleship EHP.

List me the cruisers that can get close this.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#268 - 2013-06-26 18:52:10 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Boy it sure is a good thing there's a "No Rumors" policy... Roll

it's fine to have rumours.

it's kinda stupid screaming murder and homicide when you have zero evidence and there was nobody killed yet.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Acacia Eden
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
#269 - 2013-06-26 19:02:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Acacia Eden wrote:


T3 are also expensive.



In that case I want the federate issue megathon to be balanced in the same way t3s are balanced with the other cruisers.

It should have vindicator firepower, megathron agility and speed and the buffer of a Nyx.


It will be justified if you're granteed loss of Battleship skill when it's destroyed.
Acacia Eden
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
#270 - 2013-06-26 19:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Acacia Eden
De'Veldrin wrote:
Acacia Eden wrote:

T3 are also expensive.


I'll say it again, since people seem to have missed it the first (dozen) time(s).

Production costs of ships are not fixed, and thus cost is not a balancing factor.


You can say it a thousand times more, if you wish. It won't make it true though.
I did see your argument. It's just so logically flawed that I simply ignored it.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-06-26 19:31:56 UTC
Acacia Eden wrote:
It will be justified if you're granteed loss of Battleship skill when it's destroyed.


What.

Most battleships have between 40-60k RAW Armor Hitpoints (not counting shield BS, because why?) and can boast over 100k EHP with a relatively 72-80% resist profile- the difference between them and a T3 is, a Tech3's EHP comes from having an almost omni 89-93% Resist Profile, while sporting closer to 20k RAW HP with a much smaller signature.

If you actually plan your fleet to counter what it could be up against, finding a way to apply damage to T3's isn't difficult. I could go into this more, but half you nerds think 8 BS DPS Ships and 2 Logi is ideal.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2013-06-26 19:45:38 UTC
Acacia Eden wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Acacia Eden wrote:

T3 are also expensive.


I'll say it again, since people seem to have missed it the first (dozen) time(s).

Production costs of ships are not fixed, and thus cost is not a balancing factor.


You can say it a thousand times more, if you wish. It won't make it true though.
I did see your argument. It's just so logically flawed that I simply ignored it.



oh god here I go again...

explain your logic then.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#273 - 2013-06-26 19:49:24 UTC
Acacia Eden wrote:


You can say it a thousand times more, if you wish. It won't make it true though.
I did see your argument. It's just so logically flawed that I simply ignored it.


Last time CCP tried to balance things with isk we got titan blobs ripping everything apart. The only counter was more titans.

It is impossible to balance based on isk cost because no matter how expensive we can afford it. Ships are balanced on what the hull can do and that alone. Isk has zero meaning when it comes to balance.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#274 - 2013-06-26 19:49:35 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Acacia Eden wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Acacia Eden wrote:

T3 are also expensive.


I'll say it again, since people seem to have missed it the first (dozen) time(s).

Production costs of ships are not fixed, and thus cost is not a balancing factor.


You can say it a thousand times more, if you wish. It won't make it true though.
I did see your argument. It's just so logically flawed that I simply ignored it.



oh god here I go again...

explain your logic then.


Of course cost is a balancing factor. It must never be the sole balancing factor, but it's simply foolish to say that it has no effect at all.

How else can you balance eg: Navy Ships vs T1 basic? The Navy Caracal is simply better than the basic Caracal in every statistic. This is balanced mostly by the fact that it costs more to produce, and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zircon Dasher
#275 - 2013-06-26 20:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Malcanis wrote:
and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor


So t3 will still be slightly better than HAC after changes?

Edit: if the analogy is that navy cruisers are better stat wise than t1 and that is mostly balanced by price, then t3 should be roughly equal, or slightly better than, HAC stats because of the cost difference.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#276 - 2013-06-26 20:03:15 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor


So t3 will still be slightly better than HAC after changes?


Not at the HACs job.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#277 - 2013-06-26 20:04:38 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor


So t3 will still be slightly better than HAC after changes?

better or being hacs or better at being cloaky/having ewar/etc while also being a bit shooty/tanky?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2013-06-26 20:09:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
How else can you balance eg: Navy Ships vs T1 basic? The Navy Caracal is simply better than the basic Caracal in every statistic. This is balanced mostly by the fact that it costs more to produce, and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor



it's quite more easy to get a T1 blueprint that won't run out and you can improve upon, than a limited run blueprint that you need to use time (in form of LP).

thus, the availability of the item is the balance factor here. cost is the consequence, mostly because of a combination of availability and market supply/demand rules.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2013-06-26 21:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Grimpak wrote:

it's quite more easy to get a T1 blueprint that won't run out and you can improve upon, than a limited run blueprint that you need to use time (in form of LP).

thus, the availability of the item is the balance factor here. cost is the consequence, mostly because of a combination of availability and market supply/demand rules.


I think price is a balance factor but help me understand your logic here... If you could get a navy cruiser BPO for the same cost as a T1 BPO, would people still fly the T1 hulls and how do you create "balance" with such a system?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#280 - 2013-06-26 21:54:39 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
How else can you balance eg: Navy Ships vs T1 basic? The Navy Caracal is simply better than the basic Caracal in every statistic. This is balanced mostly by the fact that it costs more to produce, and the cost factor is much higher than the effectiveness factor



it's quite more easy to get a T1 blueprint that won't run out and you can improve upon, than a limited run blueprint that you need to use time (in form of LP).

thus, the availability of the item is the balance factor here. cost is the consequence, mostly because of a combination of availability and market supply/demand rules.


I'm pretty sure that the massed armies of caldari mission runners could easily provide a 4-digit number of navy caracals per day.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016