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Freighter cargo value in high sec

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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#21 - 2013-06-26 01:33:08 UTC
Usually, a good rule to follow is "Whatever you feel comfortable losing". However, speaking from experience, I'd say the safer bet is to go no higher than 1.5 billion. Doubly so if you're carrying sleeper loot.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-06-26 03:30:44 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Nothing obtained in High Sec justifies a Freighter. The freighter was designed to carry capital parts.

Use an Orca.


But what about my hauling 1.4 mill m3 of minerals to build said capital parts D:


What freighter are you flying that can carry 1.4 mil M3? I must have missed that one.


I'll assume the best and say he was talking about the ore before compression. 1.4 million m³ ore can easily be carried in a freighter with mineral compression.
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#23 - 2013-06-26 03:35:12 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Usually, a good rule to follow is "Whatever you feel comfortable losing". However, speaking from experience, I'd say the safer bet is to go no higher than 1.5 billion. Doubly so if you're carrying sleeper loot.


Never carry sleeper loot in a slow moving indy.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#24 - 2013-06-26 08:20:15 UTC
Sabrosa Namaste wrote:
What's the most isk value you should carry in a freighter to limit the chances of being suicide ganked in high sec?

At what point do suicide gankers start to turn a profit?


I did some math today and here is what i found:

1) assume perfect catalyst pilots

2) assume perfect Obelisk pilot

3) calculate EHP of Obelisk given assumption '2' above and the result is not more than 400,000 EHPs

4) calculate damage a perfect catalyst pilot can do in 7 seconds given only hybrid blasters with just 2 round of faction ammo per turret since this is the only 2 volleys they will get off in 7 seconds before CONCORDATION (answer is approx 1000 damage).

5) 1000 damage / catalyst means it will take approx 400 perfect catalyst pilots to destroy the best defensed freighter possible in seven seconds.

6) catalysts fitted as described cost approx 1 million ISK per ship.

7) Current cost of an Obelisk 1.3 billion

8) estimated loot and salvage from a 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

.....and finally the answer to your question....'How much cargo does it take to make ganking your freighter profitable:

ZERO.

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2013-06-26 08:28:18 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Sabrosa Namaste wrote:
What's the most isk value you should carry in a freighter to limit the chances of being suicide ganked in high sec?

At what point do suicide gankers start to turn a profit?


I did some math today and here is what i found:

1) assume perfect catalyst pilots

2) assume perfect Obelisk pilot

3) calculate EHP of Obelisk given assumption '2' above and the result is not more than 400,000 EHPs

4) calculate damage a perfect catalyst pilot can do in 7 seconds given only hybrid blasters with just 2 round of faction ammo per turret since this is the only 2 volleys they will get off in 7 seconds before CONCORDATION (answer is approx 1000 damage).

5) 1000 damage / catalyst means it will take approx 400 perfect catalyst pilots to destroy the best defensed freighter possible in seven seconds.

6) catalysts fitted as described cost approx 1 million ISK per ship.

7) Current cost of an Obelisk 1.3 billion

8) estimated loot and salvage from an EMPTY 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

.....and finally the answer to your question....'How much cargo does it take to make ganking your freighter profitable:

ZERO.

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.


Obviously freighters drop more salvage than I had realised.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-06-26 08:31:33 UTC
Guys guys I am going to say too many freighters are getting ganked but I won't say how many that is or how many would be not too many* and I am going to try and whip up a forum shitstorm by making stuff up like trying to claim destroying an empty freighter yeilds 650m in drops

See also:

Suicide ganking is not real PvP
Hi-sec isn't meant to be a PvP area
Making freighters invulnerable protects new players
Suicide gankers are criminals/sociopaths/child abuse victims/virgins in real life
A bloo bloo a bloo hoo



*One would be too many

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#27 - 2013-06-26 08:57:44 UTC
Send gankers to gankers heaven - see my post Help gankers

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#28 - 2013-06-26 09:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Malcanis wrote:
Guys guys I am going to say too many freighters are getting ganked but I won't say how many that is or how many would be not too many* and I am going to try and whip up a forum shitstorm by making stuff up like trying to claim destroying an empty freighter yeilds 650m in drops

See also:

Suicide ganking is not real PvP
Hi-sec isn't meant to be a PvP area
Making freighters invulnerable protects new players
Suicide gankers are criminals/sociopaths/child abuse victims/virgins in real life
A bloo bloo a bloo hoo



*One would be too many


Show me on the doll where the bad poster touched you?
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#29 - 2013-06-26 09:51:09 UTC
Sabrosa Namaste wrote:
What's the most isk value you should carry in a freighter to limit the chances of being suicide ganked in high sec?


Change to a cloaky hauler and put giant secure containers to mask your cargo.

Don't forget to activate your cloaking device after you jump.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-06-26 14:55:45 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Usually, a good rule to follow is "Whatever you feel comfortable losing". However, speaking from experience, I'd say the safer bet is to go no higher than 1.5 billion. Doubly so if you're carrying sleeper loot.

Some people are comfortable losing blockade runners with 10b isk in cargo. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-06-26 14:59:47 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Sabrosa Namaste wrote:
What's the most isk value you should carry in a freighter to limit the chances of being suicide ganked in high sec?


Change to a cloaky hauler and put giant secure containers to mask your cargo.

Don't forget to activate your cloaking device after you jump.

Blockade runner cargoholds are masked by default.

Instead of making you safer as you might think, this actually makes you more of a target. Considering how exceedingly easy it is to kill a BR assuming you're able to lock it, many gankers are willing to go ahead and take the risk that you aren't carrying anything of value.
Combine this with the fact that most people who fly them don't realize how to properly utilize dock/undock bookmarks, and with the behavior of the Jita gates, and you end up with a lot of dead BRs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-06-26 15:08:31 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Sabrosa Namaste wrote:
What's the most isk value you should carry in a freighter to limit the chances of being suicide ganked in high sec?

At what point do suicide gankers start to turn a profit?


I did some math today and here is what i found:

1) assume perfect catalyst pilots

2) assume perfect Obelisk pilot

3) calculate EHP of Obelisk given assumption '2' above and the result is not more than 400,000 EHPs

4) calculate damage a perfect catalyst pilot can do in 7 seconds given only hybrid blasters with just 2 round of faction ammo per turret since this is the only 2 volleys they will get off in 7 seconds before CONCORDATION (answer is approx 1000 damage).

5) 1000 damage / catalyst means it will take approx 400 perfect catalyst pilots to destroy the best defensed freighter possible in seven seconds.

6) catalysts fitted as described cost approx 1 million ISK per ship.

7) Current cost of an Obelisk 1.3 billion

8) estimated loot and salvage from a 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

.....and finally the answer to your question....'How much cargo does it take to make ganking your freighter profitable:

ZERO.

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.


Who teh **** will participate in freighter ganking in a god damn 400 pilot nightmare of a fleet to get half a million ISK per empty freighter kill? And it's barely 10 million/kills for a 4 billion drop wich would first have to be separated because you can't cut sleeper loot in slices on the go.

400 pilots...
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-06-26 15:17:46 UTC
Ioci wrote:
Nothing obtained in High Sec justifies a Freighter. The freighter was designed to carry capital parts.

Use an Orca.


I have to second this. About all I use my Frieghter for is to occasionally empty out ore from my High Sec POS to a station a couple of jumps away for refining. A 'Bessie' fitted with Cargo Rigs and expanders meets all my other hauling needs. It's rare that I will haul more then half a bill worth of stuff in one go, would rather do it in two or three trips. Yes, more time, but safer
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-06-26 15:22:57 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Who teh **** will participate in freighter ganking in a god damn 400 pilot nightmare of a fleet to get half a million ISK per empty freighter kill? And it's barely 10 million/kills for a 4 billion drop wich would first have to be separated because you can't cut sleeper loot in slices on the go.

400 pilots...

He's obviously also forgetting that given all of his numbers, nobody turns a profit here since the cost of the concorded ships exceed that of the loot payout per pilot.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-06-26 15:30:40 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

8) estimated loot and salvage from a 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.


I didn't realize empty ships could drop loot? Does the loot fairy just toss some in upon explosion?

Also, you're going to somehow manage to get 400 people to go through all of this aggravation and effort for a measly (250 million profit (assumed)/400 pilots) 625,000 ISK each? What kind of low rent scrubs are in those catalysts?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-06-26 15:31:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Who teh **** will participate in freighter ganking in a god damn 400 pilot nightmare of a fleet to get half a million ISK per empty freighter kill? And it's barely 10 million/kills for a 4 billion drop wich would first have to be separated because you can't cut sleeper loot in slices on the go.

400 pilots...

He's obviously also forgetting that given all of his numbers, nobody turns a profit here since the cost of the concorded ships exceed that of the loot payout per pilot.


He was assuming i mill / cats but it's over that for his expected 1k dps yeah...
Melikor Tissant
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#37 - 2013-06-26 15:32:09 UTC
A 1.5B, maybe 2B in a quite time, will not get you ganked either in a freighter or a tanked out orca.
It will not be worth it.

On the other hand, undocking in a cloaky hauler will most like get your behind pooped out of existance the moment you can be targeted, since they can't be scanned, and people kill them either for the fun of it, or because its a gamble of maybe you did get something out of low sec which is worth something good.

Never bring a cloaky hauler close to a big populated zone or areas where gankers do their most. You will just get ganked. Its almost guaranteed.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-06-26 15:32:28 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

8) estimated loot and salvage from a 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.


I didn't realize empty ships could drop loot? Does the loot fairy just toss some in upon explosion?

Also, you're going to somehow manage to get 400 people to go through all of this aggravation and effort for a measly (250 million profit (assumed)/400 pilots) 625,000 ISK each? What kind of low rent scrubs are in those catalysts?


Salvages assuming you get anything. Not sure how much does drop from a freighter tho...
Melikor Tissant
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#39 - 2013-06-26 15:35:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


He was assuming i mill / cats but it's over that for his expected 1k dps yeah...


400 cat pilots like this will actually lose isk for killing an empty freighter, even if it gives them almost 1B in salvage (which is very unlikely).
Also it will be most likely to just get it 100% kill, he will need several more cats.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-06-26 15:36:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

8) estimated loot and salvage from a 1.3 billion ISK ship (650 million)

the gank fleet described will net approximately 250 million ISK ganking your EMPTY Obelisk.


I didn't realize empty ships could drop loot? Does the loot fairy just toss some in upon explosion?

Also, you're going to somehow manage to get 400 people to go through all of this aggravation and effort for a measly (250 million profit (assumed)/400 pilots) 625,000 ISK each? What kind of low rent scrubs are in those catalysts?


Salvages assuming you get anything. Not sure how much does drop from a freighter tho...


My remark was based on his assumption that you would get loot AND salvage from an otherwise empty ship. That simply doesn't happen unless you're shooting red crosses.

As far as the value of the drop goes:
In pure salvage? I am guessing no where near half the value of the freighter. Anyone in Miniluv got concrete numbers they could sahre?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.